Author Topic: Brainstorming for slower technological progression  (Read 22376 times)

Offline Maw

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2014, 08:09:29 am »
Latecomer to the board and thread.

As a thought relating to the plasma weapons conundrum...

I have no problem with the ability to jump direct to Heavy Plasma in research - we have it there in front of us.

But, why not have research speed affected by following the research line?  Something like:
  • Plasma Pistol gives the fundamentals of the plasma weapon 'suite', with the bonus of reducing research time required on the rifle.
  • Rifle gives the fundamentals of a two handed weapon design, with the bonus of reducing research time required on the heavy.
  • Heavy research maximises weapon power/capability/design for a hand held weapon.
  • As a bonus, require this heavy research to then lead to mounted versions (giving stability and increased power) for more output. Leading to:
  • Plasma HWP, then
  • Plasma Cannon

Overall, research time on pistol plus rifle with bonus, should be less than researching the rifle alone directly.  Similarly, researching riflle then heavy is quicker than heavy alone.  The big bonus that researching all three in series is quicker than jumping right to heavy first.

Thus, you can still research the heavy right up - particularly if its the only weapon you have.  It is still quicker to research the series if you have the weapons on hand.

Anyway, just thought I'd through this thought into the mix.

Offline hszp

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2014, 04:05:04 pm »
I have yet to try the weapon self-destruction option which seems to me to be a very good balancing factor (more difficult to research all alien artifacts and also less loot money that you could hire scientists for.)

Offline Glorfindead

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2014, 05:45:01 pm »
1. add a 2nd level of ballistic weapon that you can research after the "Alien Alloy" tech
2. Laser Weapon requires the "Elerium 115" tech
3. add a 3rd level of ballistic weapon requiring both "Laser Weapon", "Elerium115" and a new "Elerium powered ballistic" tech, ala 2mm EC from Fallout
4. having all of this unlock the "basic Plasma" tech, then "Plasma Pistol"+"Plasma Rifle". Unlock "Advanced Plasma"
5. "advanced plasma" unlocks "Heavy Plasma"

Wouldn't it be simpler?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2014, 08:50:24 pm »
1. add a 2nd level of ballistic weapon that you can research after the "Alien Alloy" tech
2. Laser Weapon requires the "Elerium 115" tech
3. add a 3rd level of ballistic weapon requiring both "Laser Weapon", "Elerium115" and a new "Elerium powered ballistic" tech, ala 2mm EC from Fallout

I like this part best. Will experiment at some point.

Offline Aldorn

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2014, 09:12:22 pm »
well, you only require an alien autopsy, whereas Hadan wants Alien Alloys as an additional requirement...

it would be nice if there was a way to include building upgrades and special requirements... like the necessity to improve your alien containment with alien alloy shielding in order to contain the more... volatile... aliens (chryssalids, silacoids).

unfortunately, we don't have a way to prevent only certain aliens from being put in the standard containment, and we don't have building upgrades, and I don't think we have the possibility to have buildings require special materials for building, or do we?

An idea...

If you find a way to do this, an idea could be to define alien containments specifically to any alien race :
- "Sectoid containment" facility
- "Sectopod containment" facility
...

Including a new research "alien containment technology", it would become
- "Sectoid containment" facility needs "alien containment technology" research + "Sectoid autopsy" research
- "Sectopod containment" facility needs "alien containment technology" research + "Sectopod autopsy" research

Offline moriarty

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2014, 12:59:03 pm »
REBOOT


okay, modders, let's try and compile a list of ideas for a longer research story arc!

what I'd like to achieve:
- slower technological progression, forcing the prolonged use of earth-tech weapons
- a way to include other weapon rulesets so they gradually become available
- something that stops heavy plasmas from being kill-all super weapons :)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2014, 01:08:51 pm »
REBOOT


okay, modders, let's try and compile a list of ideas for a longer research story arc!

what I'd like to achieve:
- slower technological progression, forcing the prolonged use of earth-tech weapons
- a way to include other weapon rulesets so they gradually become available
- something that stops heavy plasmas from being kill-all super weapons :)

Well, we've started from scratch [/b]]here. :P We seem to have the same goals.

As for the HPG balance, I believe enabling UFOExtender accuracy does help a lot.

Offline moriarty

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2014, 01:18:44 pm »
yes, I read the thread, which is why I necro'd this one... I didn't want to spam Ktulu's thread with a discussion about the slow tech progress thing, which is only a part of what he's trying to achieve.

(I wanted to link to this thread in his thread, but my computer crashed while I was writing the post :P )

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2014, 04:04:24 pm »
No matter how long you make research, as a player you will still determine "the" best research order, and use only this one for all your games...
For more variety, I tried something that would introduce a random element, but I didn't have the will to complete it...
The idea was to make some aliens carry "bit of knowledge" items that are tagged liveAlien (this is necessary so you can research more than one).
For example an "Alien weapon technology data" would use the "getOneFree" system to unlock a random item in the list:
- plasma pistol,
- plasma rifle,
 etc.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2014, 05:54:02 pm »
No matter how long you make research, as a player you will still determine "the" best research order, and use only this one for all your games...
For more variety, I tried something that would introduce a random element, but I didn't have the will to complete it...
The idea was to make some aliens carry "bit of knowledge" items that are tagged liveAlien (this is necessary so you can research more than one).
For example an "Alien weapon technology data" would use the "getOneFree" system to unlock a random item in the list:
- plasma pistol,
- plasma rifle,
 etc.

That's not a bad idea, actually it's pretty awesome. However, AFAIK it's not viable with ruleset only. Otherwise I'd be doing this by now :)

Offline Falko

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2014, 01:41:15 am »
if you add more clases STR_SECTOID_ENGINEER1, STR_SECTOID_ENGINEER2, STR_SECTOID_ENGINEER3, STR_FLOATER_ENGINEER1, .. that unlock (invisible?) ufotech[1-3] and name them the same as the original STR_SECTOID_ENGINEER,STR_FLOATER_ENGINEER,..
you cant differentiate between engineers with or without "extra-knowledge" and have to research until you got all 3 parts
at least i think it should work "with ruleset only" and i am not alone :)
[00:36] <Shoes_> you would essentially be adding new units to the game, that are identical in all respects except rank to already existing units
[00:36] <Shoes_> and then you would add reseach entries for each one, and then you would mod existing research entries

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2014, 01:46:00 am »
if you add more clases STR_SECTOID_ENGINEER1, STR_SECTOID_ENGINEER2, STR_SECTOID_ENGINEER3, STR_FLOATER_ENGINEER1, .. that unlock (invisible?) ufotech[1-3] and name them the same as the original STR_SECTOID_ENGINEER,STR_FLOATER_ENGINEER,..
you cant differentiate between engineers with or without "extra-knowledge" and have to research until you got all 3 parts
at least i think it should work "with ruleset only" and i am not alone :)

Hmmm... This is brilliant (if painful to code). But wouldn't creating more alien ranks need additional code?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 01:58:36 am by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Shoes

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2014, 01:50:06 am »
You're adding new units that are copies of old ones, but with a unique "type". As far as I know, you would not need to create new ranks (although I am sure you can mod that).

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2014, 11:05:09 am »
The same Live aliens can be researched an infinite number of time - even when the getOneFree list is complete. But if you create specific "data pod" items which all look alike, it would be a nice trick to randomize the discoveries.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Brainstorming for slower technological progression
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2014, 11:11:24 am »
You're adding new units that are copies of old ones, but with a unique "type". As far as I know, you would not need to create new ranks (although I am sure you can mod that).

Sorry, but what is "type" exactly? We have the races, which are then subdivided into ranks (called "members" - STR_SNAKEMAN_SOLDIER, STR_SNAKEMAN_NAVIGATOR etc.). Neither seem to be applicable here.