Author Topic: Feels like enemies are more difficult. MYSTERY SOLVED - Warboy is a meanie  (Read 30406 times)

Offline kharille

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Love the new feature.  I put the soldiers I don't like in the front in the first 'wave'.  Funny how once they walk out of the smoke grenade they get shot up.  That's realistic.  I'm also having fun closing with them under the cover of smoke.  Hey, in one of the mods they had the 'hit' function.  That would be great, would be fun to see how easy it is to knock out a sectoid close up, and how hard it would be with a muton.

I'll put that up on suggestions.

Offline adam

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The bit where the skyranger lands right next to buildings where aliens are probably hiding never made any sense in the original, and it's still stupid.

Offline moriarty

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Quote from: generic answer to questions of this kind
That's xcom, baby!

Quote from: solution to everything, almost like "42"
throw a smoke grenade

seriously, with the sometimes tiny maps, I'd rather have a skyranger landing next to a building than having maps without buildings (because that's the other solution to the problem).

Offline kharille

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Oh guys, I'm a little concerned how floaters seem to walk around depending on their reaction fire.  I'm taking on a very large ship.  My men are all over the corridors and the floater walks out and stands facing the wall.  Ordinarily I get hit by a lot of reaction fire, but maybe theres some way you can set priorities so that they go for the kill?

Seen something like that happen in the new firaxis product.  Chryssalids surround my soldier, next turn they all flee...

Offline wsmithjr

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Oh guys, I'm a little concerned how floaters seem to walk around depending on their reaction fire.  I'm taking on a very large ship.  My men are all over the corridors and the floater walks out and stands facing the wall.  Ordinarily I get hit by a lot of reaction fire, but maybe theres some way you can set priorities so that they go for the kill?

Saw something similar on a terror mission with Cyberdiscs.  I was trying to get the Cyberdisc and at one point it positioned within LOS of 3 of my units and was still alive by the end of the turn.  None of them were even shot at during the alien turn, but it still did reaction fire when I tried to move one of my soldiers out of it's blast zone.  Wonder if the "Sneak AI" option is having this kind of effect ... it wants to hide from my guys so ends up doing nothing.  I should have lost at least 1, if not 2 soldiers from that particular situation (or at least been fired at).

Offline kharille

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Guess I better turn that function off.  Good effort, but I've seen too many sectoids run around without shooting up my rookies.

Offline android

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..and there was me afraid to try sneaky ai
'gets stun rod and explosives..'

Offline Man in the Funny Hat

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This change of facing the aliens towards the ramp is both a good AND a bad idea.  in the original I'm not sure which direction the aliens were facing by default, whether it was random or what, but you could still get one nailing your troops one by one as they try to leave the dropship.  That was facilitated by the fact that even though xcom moves first on turn 1, the aliens begin with full TU's to expend upon reaction fire - whereas on any turn OTHER THAN turn 1 you can only take reaction fire with whatever TU's you have left over from your turn.  So, it was a bit of a cheat to let aliens have a full turns worth of TU's to take reaction fire, but they also weren't ALWAYS facing the ramp if they happened to be anywhere near it.

With this change the 1st turn threat of the aliens is significantly increased.  It's logical that they might be looking at this big machine that just dropped out of the sky next to them, but it's then also logical that Xcom pilots or the troops themselves be able to SEE some of these aliens as they're coming in to land.  After all, we are still artificially restricted in where and how we come into a hot LZ.  We can't land at the edge of it and THEN move into town.  We can't fast rope down from choppers.  We can't do HALO parachute jumps.  We get no intel on alien positions except the eyes of the individual troops - no sat coverage, no advance drones, no FLIR...  Xcom troops are at a serious disadvantage even from what troops had in 1994.  They get dropped IN THE MIDDLE of a swarm of angry aliens, and don't see or get a clue where they are until they step off the skyranger.

Had a terror mission yesterday.  5 troops dead on the first step of the ramp, 1 more dead in taking the step to the left off of that top ramp square and THEN he saw what should have be OBVIOUS - 3 cyberdisks in the open, clustered around the corner of the building.  The next several troops filed off and started taking them out, but of course the resulting detonation of the closest one killed one more trooper and gravely wounded another - and they were still standing on the ground right next to the ramp.

I still cleared the mission successfully (lost a total of 9 out of 14 troops) but that 1st round bloodbath...  It was both brutally excting and challenging AND a horribly frustrating cheat for the aliens.

One of the things I noticed is missing (in the 0.9 build) is something that was a "hidden" feature in the original - on turn 1 you could have troops turn in place inside the skyranger to reveal the terrain to the left and right.  You can't do that anymore.  I say that if the aliens are going to start turn 1 with full TU's AND facing the ramp then xcom should be able to turn, look out a "window" of the skyranger, and see not just the terrain but also spot/reveal any aliens in view - and all before anyone has to even take the first step off the ramp or throw an already primed smoke grenade.

Offline Align

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I've noticed that though you can't see the ground out of the skyranger cockpit, you can spot aliens through it - and get shot at. Nearly jumped out of the chair first time it happened.

Offline wsmithjr

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With this change the 1st turn threat of the aliens is significantly increased.

You mentioned smoke grenades, so you know about them, but, with a single thrown smoke grenade, the threat is virtually eliminated.  So, while I agree with the enhanced danger, it can be nullified by a single simple action, so I don't see it as a problem.  (Actually, I didn't even know you could pre-prime the grenades until now.)  The only time I ever get shot getting off the Skyranger is with the HWP because you can't throw the grenade until it's out of the way.

Also, if you have grenades set to explode on impact (which I use so I'm not tempted to use the really "stupid" grenade relay trick), then you don't even have to wait an entire turn for the smoke cloud to take effect and you can start unloading immediately in relative safety.

Offline adam

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Re: Feels like enemies are more difficult. Even on beginner.
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2015, 12:38:40 am »
burn turn one, use smoke.

i added a small function to the spawn code to make all aliens within a short radius (approximately maximum fire distance) of your landing craft start off facing towards your ramp.

because i hate your soldiers and i want them dead.

A bullshit change for sure.

Offline Arthanor

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Did you just quit a mission where your soldiers got massacred walking off the skyranger?

You might want to rethink the way you provide feedback on the work others have done for free for our enjoyment. Criticize by all means, but it would be better if it were civil and constructive, like most people above who actually contributed to improving the feature by adapting the feature to the difficulty level.

Offline Hobbes

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Did you just quit a mission where your soldiers got massacred walking off the skyranger?

You might want to rethink the way you provide feedback on the work others have done for free for our enjoyment. Criticize by all means, but it would be better if it were civil and constructive, like most people above who actually contributed to improving the feature by adapting the feature to the difficulty level.

+1

Offline adam

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No, I use smoke most of the time, which mitigates against this change. I chose my tone carefully, to match the irritatingly self-satisfied original.

It's a bs change because one of the stated goals of this project is to be similar to the original out of the box. This isn't similar; it's just a stupid trap for the unwary. If it were a switch you had to throw, it wouldn't bother me.

Devs who want to be treated respectfully need to treat others respectfully.


Offline Hobbes

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Devs who want to be treated respectfully need to treat others respectfully.

Dude, you don't want to go this path, honestly.

You disagree with a choice that was introduced by developers and discussed heavily in the community (developers, modders and players), that's fine.

But if you begin to consider all changes you disagree as a personal offense to you and blaming the developers, then do us all a favor and stick to the original game.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 01:55:17 am by Hobbes »