Author Topic: X-Chronicles resource review  (Read 4976 times)

Offline Hobbes

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2022, 06:47:28 pm »
I don't know about POLISURBAN, but URBANJUNK was made by entirely by me over the course of many weeks. Yes, it's inspired by NATIVE, but most definitely it's not NATIVE. These terrains shouldn't share even a single AI node, nor a single wall. The overall concept is also quite different.

You were warned about this two years ago with this specific terrain.

You have at least 13 examples on the attached image comparing the different levels NATIVEURBAN original terrain with your URBANJUNK, with the original NATIVEURBAN on the left and URBANJUNK on the right.

The screenshots were taken using MapView to compare the general appearance on the main window, the .RMP file nodes appear on top right box the and .MAP layout files on the bottom right box). Check how the positions of the nodes (top right) and the general layout (bottom right) is in many cases still the same.

I didn't bother to add all the compared files other than those 13 since to display them all would require close to a hundred screenshots. And since I made the original map layouts and AI nodes from zero, I know them like the back of my hand and recognize them immediately. And since I'm the original author of the .MAP/.RMP files, I'm the copyright owner of those since NATIVE was never a part of UFO2000 but my separate work.

NATIVE and its .MAP files were originally published around 2005 on my personal Geocities website, which can be accessed through the Wayback Machine here https://web.archive.org/web/20140820064635/http://area51.xcomufo.com/, and I still have the website files available in my hard drive, which I have also attached to this post. I later adapted it to OXC by adding the .RMP files, so any claims that those files belong to the original game are delusional and an attempt to distract from the issue at hand.

You evidently added a couple new .MAP/.RMP files, have renamed the files, changed a few things and replaced some of the textures, but to claim that of these are all coincidence and URBANJUNK is all your original work is simply impossible.

And you don't ever credit the original terrain or me as author.

If people don't understand why I'm upset about this issue, check out the image and zipped file for yourselves and make your own conclusions.

PS - I've also attached the original POLIS terrain, also completely my original work, which Dioxine is also using after being told to remove it, and without even crediting me.

And Dioxine, since you mentioned this, I challenge you to go through my current BattleTech mod and point me a single piece of content there that is your original work. Better yet, report it to the site and have my mod taken down since it's unauthorized content and Nexusmods is pretty heavy handed with those kind of infractions regarding permissions.

Unless you're claiming that adding pirates to a mod is a original idea of yours that no one has done before, and that ideas can be copyrighted, which then proves that you have no idea of what copyright is and how it works.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 07:43:32 pm by Hobbes »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2022, 08:40:38 pm »
I did recreate part of it, yes. Since it's a new terrain, maps and RMPs, I didn't expect it to be an issue.
If these changes are not satisfactory, then no problem, I will make further modifications. It's only a matter of a few hours.
But you must declare how many pixels must be changed for you to finally make you satisfied. I am tired of this game of moving goal posts. I just want to leave this behind me, it's costed me enough stress and effort already.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2022, 09:07:28 pm »
I did recreate part of it, yes. Since it's a new terrain, maps and RMPs, I didn't expect it to be an issue.
If these changes are not satisfactory, then no problem, I will make further modifications. It's only a matter of a few hours.

That's some sort of a progress since first you said it was entirely made by you.

But now you're saying that you just recreated the map layout and AI node points of the majority of the 90 .MAP/.RMP files of NATIVE nearly exactly as they were, involving thousands of AI nodes and individual tile positions? At least that reveals a lack of imagination and I guess that could be a compliment, but it's still an uncredited copy of my work, as you just admitted, even if it's partial.

Quote
But you must declare how many pixels must be changed for you to finally make you satisfied.

As you just admitted on your reply when you mentioned maps and .RMP, this was never a matter of pixels or artwork, so stop trying to distract people from the issue at hand.

Quote
I am tired of this game of moving goal posts. I just want to leave this behind me, it's costed me enough stress and effort already.

You were warned two years ago to stop using all my .MAP/RMP files, and I still have your message reply somewhere where you chose to ignore me regarding this terrain. The terrain ruleset of XCF even keeps using NATIVE's original name on its line 1502 in conjunction with the .MAP/.RMP files:

name: URBANNATIVE

If you didn't reach the goal post on their first place, don't claim I'm moving them now.

And if you're tired and stressed, complain to Dioxine, not me.

He's the one who decided to jump in when I was having a discussion with Nord, without anyone asking for his opinion. But since he got in because he still thinks he has a score to settle with me, well let's settle it then. I had already noticed this issue for quite some time but I chose to be quiet, Dioxine is the one who literally brought you into this discussion, not me.

PS - And STORMMOUNTAIN was an original UFO2000 terrain with the same exact name. I don't even see the original author credited on XCF. Or did you just recreate the original files as well?

I've attached STORMMOUNTAIN's original UFO2000 files and the author was Wiseman. I'm guessing you also recreated the non-existant .RMP files on the .zip file, that I had to create from zero when I converted that terrain to OXC, but that's OK.

PPS - Or, since you mentioned pixels, what about the Mudranger APC?

It's an active mod made for the original game by NKF that is being hosted at Strategycore.co.uk. XCF includes three maps called NKF_APC.MAP and derivatives. But instead, you have on the credits:

Hobbes: Mudranger map

Which I assume you took from the Terrain Pack/Area51 but you aren't giving credit to the proper author, NKF. Considering that I was the one who originally started using his work, and properly credited on those mods, I do feel the responsability that he deserves proper credit since it would be wrong for me to claim his original work.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 10:30:00 pm by Hobbes »

Offline davide

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2022, 12:20:46 am »
How much would you sell the rights to your maps for?
If it's not too much, I'll pay them and close this drama.
In case, I would offer them to add them to the community map pack
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 12:24:49 am by davide »

Offline Hobbes

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2022, 02:15:06 am »
How much would you sell the rights to your maps for?
If it's not too much, I'll pay them and close this drama.
In case, I would offer them to add them to the community map pack

I never received anything material out of being an XCom fan, and it's not my intention to start now, but thank you for the offer, davide.

And as for anyone who ever played and/or used my work and would like to donate anything, I'd ask you all instead them to donate instead towards OXC and the developers, because they are the ones who deserve to be rewarded for all their work and commitment, otherwise all of this would never had happened in the first place.

Offline Nord

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2022, 08:44:04 am »
Hobbes, since you have'nt answered straight on a single question, but always rise discussion, i think you are the Troll.

Offline davide

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2022, 11:44:32 am »
So I don't agree with Hobbes because we are basically in an open source environment and therefore everything should be reusable.

And if someone wants to ask for donations, I don't see a problem if they are free

But surely Hobbes deserves to be mentioned in the credits because his work over the years has inspired and guided practically everyone. And he is definitely NOT a Troll

Offline Ethereal

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2022, 12:09:12 pm »
Comrades, there is a suggestion - to send to hell this boring Hobbes, along with all his claims, and continue to improve their modifications, for the benefit of the entire community.

Offline davide

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2022, 12:20:22 pm »
I reiterate that while I disagree with Hobbes,
it is deeply wrong to brutally attack him because all the mods you are building in some way are inspired by those of the Ufo2000 community and even earlier by those of the ufoxcom community of which he was a leader.

Offline Ethereal

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2022, 12:54:34 pm »
I reiterate that while I disagree with Hobbes,
it is deeply wrong to brutally attack him because all the mods you are building in some way are inspired by those of the Ufo2000 community and even earlier by those of the ufoxcom community of which he was a leader.

I don’t know who “everyone” is, but you forced me to ask what kind of Ufo2000 it is. I saw a lot of mentions about it, but I decided to look only now. An interesting project. By the way, Hobbes himself is listed in the credits as "Testing the game" and not the author, which means that the content of Ufo2000 does not belong to him.

Offline davide

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2022, 01:08:10 pm »
The main websites about  ufo2000 are closed
Hobbes collect terrain/maps from other owners and develop new original terrain and maps that he publish on this site https://area51.xcomufo.com/ (closed)
NativeUrban is one of them
You can found something here but the site is very old
http://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?s=616dcb762b1298a307d2926a70f8fade&showforum=345
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 01:13:29 pm by davide »

Offline Hobbes

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2022, 06:40:45 pm »
The main websites about  ufo2000 are closed
Hobbes collect terrain/maps from other owners and develop new original terrain and maps that he publish on this site https://area51.xcomufo.com/ (closed)
NativeUrban is one of them
You can found something here but the site is very old
http://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?s=616dcb762b1298a307d2926a70f8fade&showforum=345

Just a clarification: the original NATIVE terrain mod for UFO:Defense original game and UFO200 are both entirely my creation. And NativeUrban for OXC was also adapted by me.

And if you check the xcomufo forums whose link Davide posted, you can check the posts for yourselves, made by me.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2022, 09:27:39 pm »
Okay, I have extensively modified my URBANJUNK terrain (the reported blocks) to remove any remaining similarities with NATIVE, based on your earlier report. If you want, you can find them in my GitHub repo, commit from a couple minutes ago.

I have also credited NKF properly, thanks for letting me know.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2022, 10:19:13 pm »
Okay, I have extensively modified my URBANJUNK terrain (the reported blocks) to remove any remaining similarities with NATIVE, based on your earlier report. If you want, you can find them in my GitHub repo, commit from a couple minutes ago.

I have also credited NKF properly, thanks for letting me know.

OK, first thank you for understanding, you and Dioxine did a good job overall in removing my content from your mods. There might be disagreements but I will insist and check that things get properly credited. I have done the same, as both of you requested and stopped distribution of any your content, and any new mods made by me will not use any of your content, and I invite you both to check in the future and also call me out with the visual proof, since I might have missed a tile or be unaware of the proper author.

There are couple of little things remaining but I trust you can figure them out or ask me, and either remove or credit the mods and their authors. And peaking specifically about Commercial, which was a joint venture based on my original City/Apartment mod, the map blocks taken from Apartment (COMRCURBAN00-09 and 14-18) are yours to use as you want or not. I add City/Apartment to the Terrain pack, using the my original files of my UFO Defense mod, so the decision to either keep or remove the Commercial terrain at this point is yours, since it involves you and Dioxine's work.

Finally, and concerning the Terrain Pack itself, all these discussion made me rethink my position, and I'm currently looking to release it a new version under an entirely different format that will permanently solve the issue of permissions and crediting, as well as making available to everyone all the UFO2000 terrains that were adapted to it.

If you have any additional issues that you'd like to discuss, go ahead, for my part I consider this issue solved.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 10:20:59 pm by Hobbes »

Offline Hobbes

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Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2022, 07:06:17 am »
Yes I'm using some POLISURBAN mapblocks... in different terrains and with different tilesets, and modified RMPs. Like Nord said, how many walls, exactly, have to be changed to satisfy Hobbes?

And I almost forgot about this, since Dioxine didn't bother to answer so far about claiming credit and content for work that originally wasn't his.

Your actions speak louder than your words, compadre.

Bon voyage and good luck, and I'm done with this issue as well.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 07:42:22 am by Hobbes »