Author Topic: X-Chronicles resource review  (Read 3346 times)

Offline Requiem

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
    • View Profile
Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2022, 01:41:13 pm »
So, i assume that now new fixes for x-chronicles will be there not soon because of this drama?  :-\

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2101
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2022, 04:21:33 pm »
So, i assume that now new fixes for x-chronicles will be there not soon because of this drama?  :-\

Fortunately, the drama will not end on a tragedy, because that I'm taking steps for Nord (and others) to keep using the Terrain Pack content on their mods, and that this situation doesn't repeat itself on the future with it.

So, you'll be able to keep enjoying updates for this mod. :)

Online Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 10465
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
    • Email
Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2022, 06:24:25 pm »
I'm really glad to have this settled as well.

I will try to check if there are any leftovers in the native terrain. I can't be sure about it, since its evolution is very tangled, but it won't hurt to look.

As for the Commercial, I'll keep it in its entirety, since a vast majority of the blocks are made by either me or Dioxine, or at least significantly reworked.

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5303
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
    • Email
Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2022, 06:41:48 pm »
I will reiterate my original stance: Terrain Pack, 2014 version (which I was using), and everything related to it, was released as public domain and I was actively encouraged to use it by Hobbes (like was everyone).
When in december 2019 he suddenly said this is no longer public domain, I had no legal obligation whatsoever to remove it, because I never used this new, non-public domain version. I did that only for Hobbes to sod off. I didn't remove completely everything he ever touched, sure, well I guess he has to deal with it. None of the xcom resources I use were licensed in any way, except for obvious ownership of xcom brand and all of its original assets (including those used by Hobbes) by their rightful copyright holders.
Furthermore, I make no claims of ownership whatsoever, because modding is not about ownership, nor I use any of this for commercial purposes. (Accepting donations does NOT fall under commercial purposes).
All credits to NKF and other contributors from UFO2000 scene are there, 100% according to the list made for me by Hobbes (if it was incomplete, I will accept revision). After these credits were added, he demanded me to remove his assets.
As for Hobbes himself, he is credited according to his contribution, you can check this in XPZ readme:
"Thanks for Nothing".

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2101
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2022, 05:58:46 pm »
I will reiterate my original stance: Terrain Pack, 2014 version (which I was using), and everything related to it, was released as public domain and I was actively encouraged to use it by Hobbes (like was everyone).

You can see the original version of the Terrain Pack for UFO2000 that I published in 2005 and made available for download on my old page attached below. See how none of credits for any of the terrain mentions 'public domain' or 'open source'.

Unless it says specifically 'open domain' or has an open source license, any contents published on the internet belong to their authors, despite what you or others may believe. You can check my old page (http://area51.xcomufo.com on the Internet Wayback Machine) to see if it says anything about public domain or licences.

The .MAP and .RMP files I create are copyrighted because they are original software files created through MapView, that contain no graphics or artwork inside. Those are unique and original assets I created over 20 years for my personal mods and originally published them on my old web page. They are not modifications of the original game's files.

Quote
When in december 2019 he suddenly said this is no longer public domain, I had no legal obligation whatsoever to remove it, because I never used this new, non-public domain version.

As I proved, there was never a public domain version. Whatever you're talking, it's your invention, unless you can prove it.

But since I'm getting the record straight...

Around 2012 I was browsing through OXC's forums and I discovered that my site had been raided by OpenXCom modders for resources, without even bothering to ask or credit me first.

Since I had already one Terrain Pack for UFO2000 published (using only my terrains) and was working on another for the original game, I decided to port them to OXC, and to keep an eye on how it would be used, because wanted people to play and modders to use them. And most people followed the rules - non commercial use, attribution, etc. And I was happy to see others to use and modify.

But I never made my material open source because I had experiences in the past that showed me the potential for abuse (I'm a professional writer - plagiarism is always something you need to look for), which unfortunately happened as I became aware in 2019:

* Author obscuration - on Piratez and XCF credits, in 2019 I was listed on the bottom half of the list as something like "Hobbes: some terrains".

* Cloning entire mods and their resources without crediting the original mods - half the .MAP and .RMP files that you were using on their mod packs were mine, without a single mention to my mods Terrain Pack or Area 51, from which you had cloned.

* Non-commercial use - start making money with them. At the beginning your mods didn't ask for donations, and after years without them, you decided to change your policy, without asking or informing the original author(s) that you had changed the conditions under which they were being used.

The first two issues could have been solved back then and will be fixed now. One way to the other, it's your decision. 

As to the third issue, in 2019 when I became aware that you had decided to start asking for donations, when half of your .MAP/.RMP files were my copyright and required permission from me to use, I gave both you and Solarius on Discord the choice of either removing the donations links or remove the permission to use and distribute my copyrighted assets (the .MAP and .RMP files).

Both of you decided otherwise, to keep donations (which you claimed were minimal) and remove my material. I've included the Discord chats with you on that specific point, in case your memory needs refreshing.

You refused it because you wanted to keep receiving personal donations you called 'minimal' and 'negative profits', which is contradictory, to say the least. It took you six months to remove nearly all my copyrighted material, while you could have kept everything as it was by simply removing a donation link that gave you 'minimal' or 'negative' profits (see the attached Discord chat image). And if Piratez would be to remain non-commercial on the future, why would you need the links then?

In any case, Dioxine's decision to keep the donation link, left me with no other choice to change the authors' permissions for everyone - further distribution and use/modification of this material was forbidden to all modders. While I allowed everyone else to keep the older versions of the Terrain Pack they already had downloaded. But this past policy is going to be changed very soon.

Quote
I didn't remove completely everything he ever touched, sure, well I guess he has to deal with it.

Since you've just admitted you're still using and distributing the POLISURBAN .MAP and .RMP files, you're in breach of copyright, so you're the one who still has to deal with it.

Or, if you prefer, let's talk about the COMMERCIAL terrain, how the CMRCURBAN00-09 and CMRCURBAN14-18 map files were the first mod I ever made for the original game, that I allowed those maps to be used in Commercial, and how you keep using those files without creding the original author, me?

And you're 'recreating' them like Solarius was with my original NATIVE map files, as I showed above. I can provide another image comparing both my originals and your attempts to obscure their origin, if that's necessary.

Quote
As for Hobbes himself, he is credited according to his contribution, you can check this in XPZ readme:
"Thanks for Nothing".

And now you just admitted about you're using other author's assets and deliberatly not crediting them properly, as it is your responsability with any third party material, regardless of it is copyrighted or open source or public domain, to properly attribute it.

Since 2019, you had two years to remove copyrighted material you're not longer permitted to us or at least properly credit/attribute it, as it is your responsability as a modder with any third party material, open source or now.

Your time is up now. I hope the personal donations that you're collecting by using uncredited work made by other authors were worth it.

TLDR - Modders need to give proper credit/attribution to the original authors and respect permissions. Or else.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2022, 09:42:15 pm by Hobbes »

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2101
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2022, 10:53:19 pm »
On the subject of CMRCURBAN (Commercial) terrain, I present in the attached picture CITY05.MAP, the first original building I ever designed in 2004 as an addition to the original game (left on the attached picture). Besides the map layout (.MAP) and AI nodes (.RMP) I even personally designed the DINO and X-WARS posters that appear on the cinema's walls. 

Next to it and on the middle of the image, the version I made for UFO2000 (called APARTMNT.05), and which I personally ported to OXC around 2014-15, as part of the Commercial terrain, named CMRCURBAN05. I replaced the front doors and outside walls and added a couple of posters made by Dioxine, but otherwise kept the layout intact and map objects intact.

Finally, the current version of CMRCURBAN05 that is currently being used on mods, with Dioxine singlely credited as the author. With zero mention of me as the original author of City/Apartment, the terrain used for the first published version of Commercial.

And Dioxine, I can go on with dozens more examples of your deliberate non-attribution/crediting and trying to hide the original work over the past two years as a 'recreation'. If you consider this to be proper behavior for modders, I'm glad this is being finally discussed in public.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2022, 11:15:30 pm by Hobbes »

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2101
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: X-Chronicles resource review
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2022, 11:56:01 pm »
Ah... I was trying to avoid having to look inside the current version of Piratez but it seems I did well to check the files.

Just going through a glance on its /MAPS folder, I find all of these, which Dioxine was told to remove 3 years ago:
* MADURBAN .MAPs/.RMPs (new city map blocks made by me a part of my MADURBAN UFO2000 terrain) - around 50+ files
* CULTAFARM .MAPs/.RMPs (new farm map blocks made by me as a part of my MODIFIED FARM UFO2000 terrain) - around 50+ files

I've attached ALL of the map blocks I've made for those UFO2000 terrains (including those map blocks that I didn't had time to create the .RMP files)

And POLISURBAN02, 04, 05, and 06 maps (originally a part of my POLIS UFO2000 terrain, which contained several of these large buildings), which Dioxine feels entitled to "claim" as his own original work after doing a simple paint job over the map layout using robin's artwork, despite me being the original creator of the .MAP and .RMP files, and all the work associated in designing the layout and placing the individual map objects, plus the AI nodes required for the aliens to move around.

"Thanks for nothing" indeed, eh?

And Dioxine, do you realize that in order to give a GNU GPL open source license to Piratez, you still need to have copyright or permission over all the original material that you're distributing?

And that the GPL license allows commercial use, but a lot of content you still have on Piratez was likely made by the authors of those mods with a non-commercial (NC) propose, like the authors of UFO2000 terrains like Bagirov or Wiseman that you're using?

Or do you claim it's all 'public domain' as you did wrongly with my mods?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2022, 12:52:19 am by Hobbes »