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Author Topic: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?  (Read 2032 times)

Offline Incognito

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Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« on: September 05, 2021, 02:05:50 pm »
Was this just me or when you have the Psi capture activated, that Sectopods can't be captured? Or is this because it was never supposed to be possible in the vanilla game and would cause some shenigans? I presume the same for Cyber Discs.

Offline Meridian

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2021, 02:52:55 pm »
yes

Offline zee_ra

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2023, 09:16:10 am »
yes

The sectopods are capturable with 150 psi strength and skill in XCF-3.1.  Is that still really intended (engine-wise rather than mod-wise)?

Offline Juku121

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2023, 10:20:07 am »
Don't know engine-wise, but mod-wise OG Sectopods have 'capturable: false' and XCF Sectopods default to true. MiB Sectopods even explicitly have 'capturable: true'.

Offline zee_ra

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2023, 10:30:16 am »
Don't know engine-wise, but mod-wise OG Sectopods have 'capturable: false' and XCF Sectopods default to true. MiB Sectopods even explicitly have 'capturable: true'.

Thank you for sharing this.

I think there's a good rationale for this approach: the sectopods are controllable through psi-link.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2023, 03:04:17 pm »
Yes, they should be capturable like almost any unit. Sectopods aren't true robots, they're more like cyborgs (although their brains are artificial and probably not carbon based).

Offline zee_ra

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2023, 06:29:28 am »
Yes, they should be capturable like almost any unit. Sectopods aren't true robots, they're more like cyborgs (although their brains are artificial and probably not carbon based).

That is a nice perspective on the nature of sectopods.  While not explicitly stated in XCF (as far as I recall ...), the vibe is certainly somewhere in that realm.

I would like to consider the issue of agents' psionic powers.  Should it be usable to capture any electronics, at sufficient power?  I assume, that at 120/120 (PST/PSK), a probability to accomplish that should be non-negligible.  What do you think?

Also, what does the psi capture setting affect specifically?  Would disabling it return a behavior from XCOM2, where aliens upon which MC was used had been rendered un-capturable for research purposes?  Is there a way to turn on a similar behavior in XCF?



Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2023, 11:31:16 am »
That is a nice perspective on the nature of sectopods.  While not explicitly stated in XCF (as far as I recall ...), the vibe is certainly somewhere in that realm.

Oops, I thought I was responding in the XCF subsection... But I think this still works for vanilla anyway. IMO would fit with how Ethereals operate.

I would like to consider the issue of agents' psionic powers.  Should it be usable to capture any electronics, at sufficient power?  I assume, that at 120/120 (PST/PSK), a probability to accomplish that should be non-negligible.  What do you think?

I personally think if your psionic stats are at 120/120, then you can perform all sorts of absurd things. Maybe not "anything", but a lot.

Also, what does the psi capture setting affect specifically?  Would disabling it return a behavior from XCOM2, where aliens upon which MC was used had been rendered un-capturable for research purposes?  Is there a way to turn on a similar behavior in XCF?

Sorry, by XCOM2 do you mean TFTD? Or the nuCom? Because I don't really understand what feature you mean. Why would an enemy unit become uncapturable because you MCed it?

Offline zee_ra

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2023, 04:33:24 am »
Oops, I thought I was responding in the XCF subsection... But I think this still works for vanilla anyway. IMO would fit with how Ethereals operate.

Indeed!  I concur on that perspective.

I personally think if your psionic stats are at 120/120, then you can perform all sorts of absurd things. Maybe not "anything", but a lot.

With Helix Psion and Sectoid Legacy, even greater miracles are possible.  :wink:

Sorry, by XCOM2 do you mean TFTD? Or the nuCom? Because I don't really understand what feature you mean. Why would an enemy unit become uncapturable because you MCed it?

I mean specifically the original TFTD.  I recall having a trouble with capturing a Lobsterman Navigator, who was hidden in the center colony struct, very hard to access without destroying Zrbite planted nearby.  I was accomplishing those colony missions by MC-capturing most aliens, including the Lobsterman Navigator.  It turned out that I was unable to research that specific alien after finishing the missions, until I stopped to MC-capture it.  Clearly, this implies that an explicit mechanic in the game against researching those aliens which were MC-controlled at least once during the tactical mission.

I wonder, if that specific mechanic was a deliberate decision.  If so, how does it correspond to the corresponding design decision in XCF?

Offline psavola

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2023, 07:17:46 am »
I mean specifically the original TFTD.  I recall having a trouble with capturing a Lobsterman Navigator, who was hidden in the center colony struct, very hard to access without destroying Zrbite planted nearby.  I was accomplishing those colony missions by MC-capturing most aliens, including the Lobsterman Navigator.  It turned out that I was unable to research that specific alien after finishing the missions, until I stopped to MC-capture it.  Clearly, this implies that an explicit mechanic in the game against researching those aliens which were MC-controlled at least once during the tactical mission.

I wonder, if that specific mechanic was a deliberate decision.  If so, how does it correspond to the corresponding design decision in XCF?

There is an OXC/OXCE option "allowPsionicCapture". I do not recall how that was in OG XCOM2, that is, does the mission end to an MC capture and if so, do uou get a) nothing, b) corpse, c) live alien. If you disable allowPrionicCapture (I have never played so myself), AFAIK based on the source code it seems the mission just continues even though you captured the last alien (until you no longer capture it and deal with the last one with some other manner). With default OXC(E) TFTD settings you can certainly do MC live captures.

Offline zee_ra

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2023, 07:31:06 am »
There is an OXC/OXCE option "allowPsionicCapture". I do not recall how that was in OG XCOM2, that is, does the mission end to an MC capture and if so, do uou get a) nothing, b) corpse, c) live alien. If you disable allowPrionicCapture (I have never played so myself), AFAIK based on the source code it seems the mission just continues even though you captured the last alien (until you no longer capture it and deal with the last one with some other manner). With default OXC(E) TFTD settings you can certainly do MC live captures.

I guess, the end result in the original should have been a corpse.  Otherwise, it would be a viable object.  It's challenging to test ATM, even with dosbox.

Is there a perceived problem with the fact that an alien was under a psi control, and then it is sent on trial, torture, and execution for the sake of information extraction.  That is: Is prior instance of a psi control considered to be an obstacle to subsequent interrogation / research?  Why or why not?

Offline psavola

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2023, 11:37:46 am »
Is there a perceived problem with the fact that an alien was under a psi control, and then it is sent on trial, torture, and execution for the sake of information extraction.  That is: Is prior instance of a psi control considered to be an obstacle to subsequent interrogation / research?  Why or why not?

This is going way off-topic, but if you wanted "realism", interrogation should be somewhat easier (research cost-wise) when you have obtained psionics and sufficient skill to overcome the aliens. Regardless of whether you captured them psionically or not. Wth psionics you could just make the alien tell all its dirty secrets immediately. No need to torture it or otherwise make it spill the beans. Much faster, I'd imagine. But I don't think the OXCE engine doesn't support this and I doubt this would be a very interesting feature in any case.

Offline zee_ra

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2023, 01:01:50 pm »
This is going way off-topic, but if you wanted "realism", interrogation should be somewhat easier (research cost-wise) when you have obtained psionics and sufficient skill to overcome the aliens. Regardless of whether you captured them psionically or not. Wth psionics you could just make the alien tell all its dirty secrets immediately. No need to torture it or otherwise make it spill the beans. Much faster, I'd imagine. But I don't think the OXCE engine doesn't support this and I doubt this would be a very interesting feature in any case.

This is a nice idea.  While it may not find its way into a game, it offers an insight w.r.t. my original question: whether psionic capture should be eschewed or not.

I think, it could be implemented by having the interrogations performed by engineers, based on the presence of a facility.  Just a thought, by a modder, for other modders.

Offline Juku121

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2023, 09:26:09 pm »
I think, it could be implemented by having the interrogations performed by engineers, based on the presence of a facility.  Just a thought, by a modder, for other modders.
Can be done, but would need a research project anyway. So some fairly pointless micromanagement in order to get some extra 'realism'. Personally, I don't think it'd be worth it, but YMMV.

Offline Geronimo

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Re: Sectopods - Can't be Psionicly captured?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2023, 07:12:03 am »
Off-topic, but I was able to stun and capture a Sectopod. That surprised me greatly.