OpenXcom Forum
OpenXcom Forks => OpenXcom Extended (OXCE) => OXCE Suggestions DONE => Topic started by: NineCoronas on March 19, 2024, 10:33:56 pm
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Apologies for title sprawl.
Basically, I'd like to see a hotkey that you can use to trigger a colored arrow to point down at a soldier. Maybe you could select a variety of colors in Extended Links. Anyways, I want to use it to mark soldiers that have active, dangerous explosives to be thrown, but I can think of a bunch of other uses for such a key.
Thanks for your time!
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Done.
Focus (no need to select) a soldier (or any friendly unit), and press Alt+C.
It will cycle between a red indicator, blue indicator, green indicator, white indicator and no indicator each time you press it.
(red indicator looks orange in TFTD)
Press and hold Alt to display the indicator overhead.
Indicator is only displayed for standing (i.e. non-unconscious) friendly units (incl. alien under MC).
Indicator is saved and persists after save/load.
PS: the facing direction indicator is now NOT displayed anymore when holding just Alt; it now requires holding Alt+Ctrl
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it now requires holding Alt+Ctrl
Direction indicator is a commonly used function, so I think it's not a good idea to make it harder to use. Is there perhaps some other key that could be used for the Direction indicator, or perhaps for the new soldier earmarking, so that the players wouldn't need to hold two keys to access the Direction Indicator?
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I am very sorry to say this, but this makes for a terrible change for my playing experience. I did not realise how much I relied upon pressing Alt for visual orientation around the battlefield, but now I understand that it's literally the most used key on my keyboard when playing X-Com (maybe next to Ctrl for running). I use it all the time, and not having it easily available is seriously cutting into my playing ergonomics.
I won't use big words like "this is unplayable now!", because it's not true, but it is significantly harder to play. I would be very grateful if this change was made optional in some way.
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A terrible change. The colored arrows look foreign to this game. I used to use the alt hotkey all the time, and now I'm very upset because I don't need the new feature at all.
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I echo the general sentiment - I am always down for extra features {and the custom markers are pretty cool}, but any chance of remapping alt back to its default function and using ctrl-alt for the custom markers? Or, if it's possible, have both of them be remappable?
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A terrible change. The colored arrows look foreign to this game.
That's why suggestions are publicly visible here and open for community discussion.
Why did nobody comment between March and August that this suggestion is useless?
I used to use the alt hotkey all the time, and now I'm very upset because I don't need the new feature at all.
It would also help if you didn't just say "I use it all the time", but said clearly when and why you use it.
I don't use alt at all, maybe once a month on an odd Celatid or something.
In the other 99.99% of cases the unit facing direction is clear without any help (or irrelevant).
How am I supposed to know that you're using it all the time for something?
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I would not consider this feature useless, while I haven't given it much time in actual gameplay I can see that this can be used to easely identify units that are carrying specialized items, medkits, stunrods, BLs and anything else when you don't want to play with cookie cutter loadouts for all soldiers. Could also easely mark units that have low health / armor, have shown MC weakness, etc... It's very new and people just haven't found their use of the feature. It does make it easier to tell appart your currently selected unit from motion scanner arrows indicators.
Now for the facing indicator, I have used it with relative frequency, the most common case is for "aliens in the dark" where an enemy unit has been spotted, but the tiles it's standing on haven't been revealed. It helps in both determining the facing AND where on the map it is if I want to try to take a shot at it, instead of having to cursor scan every dark tile.
I believe the issue comes from the fact that the new feature has "pushed" the older one into requiring 2 key holds instead of the 1 and muscle memory has not adapted. I don't find the new method particulary problematic, but that's my opinion on it.
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That's why suggestions are publicly visible here and open for community discussion.
Why did nobody comment between March and August that this suggestion is useless?
Because:
1) Like I mentioned, I did not realise fully how important this was;
2) I had no idea it would be forced on me with no way out;
3) I probably didn't care to think about this feature back then, because I wasn't interested in it, and therefore didn't consider possible repercussions.
No huge deal, I can live with it, but I honestly would rather not. This function is like a complementary minimap to me now, so not having this easily available is pretty annoying.
I believe the issue comes from the fact that the new feature has "pushed" the older one into requiring 2 key holds instead of the 1 and muscle memory has not adapted. I don't find the new method particulary problematic, but that's my opinion on it.
Unfortunately I do. I use this often enough that having to press two keys now is very awkward.
Please don't take it as thankless grumbling. It is a very rare case of me not liking some OXCE feature; I love 40% of it, 59% I'm indifferent about, and 1% I hate. This feature belongs with this 1%, unfortunately.
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That's why suggestions are publicly visible here and open for community discussion.
Why did nobody comment between March and August that this suggestion is useless?
How could I know what would be sacrificed?
It would also help if you didn't just say "I use it all the time", but said clearly when and why you use it.
I don't use alt at all, maybe once a month on an odd Celatid or something.
In the other 99.99% of cases the unit facing direction is clear without any help (or irrelevant).
How am I supposed to know that you're using it all the time for something?
There are a lot of situations when the enemy is standing in the shadow of the fog of war, and visually it is not visible. This happens many times in each mission. Except by pressing the alt button, it is impossible to know the direction of these enemies' gaze.
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I've gotten used to using ALT very extensively. If you have a scaled battlescape, as I suppose essentially everyone has now, it's not really many screens to scroll to see everything even on, say, 60x60 map (in contrast to OG). Usually I only use the minimap in bug-hunt mode or check how far I am from the borders of the map (also by pressing ALT on minimap to see the borders, if I recall correctly; easily checkable with scrolling as well). Instead of minimap, it's way more convenient to just press ALT to spot the units (also scanned ones), including which way they are facing just to be sure (especially important in mods like XCF where at start you might have tons of enemies looking at some direction and sniper/spotter mechanics make it essential to know which ones have spotted you). This is also true for missions which have multiple levels and you want to quickly go up/down levels with PgUp/PgDown and check which level had the enemy units (that you see with PsiVision for example).
The problems with minimap are that
- it's slow to switch back and forth (multiple times per turn)
- it can be very difficult to spot the units with certainty, especially the blue dots can be really difficult to see if they are standing on top of some item
- the colors on it can be really messy and ugly, I suppose depending on terrain.
- you don't get the precise location so easily if you want to target some unit or its adjacent square (e.g. with a grenade)
It's no big problem for me to get used to pressing two keys instead of just one, given that CTRL and ALT are so close to each other so you can do the pressing with one hand (I have used little finger and thumb myself in my testing) in any case leaving the other, right hand free to do something else, like scroll the map.
I suppose it would have caused least surprise and thus would have been most logical to preserve the existing behaviour with ALT, yet add the new feature using a different keybinding, like CTRL+ALT. But whether it makes sense to change it back this way, or some other way, is maybe another question.
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And nobody mentioned proximity detector? I am joining to this demonstration. This is mockery to blame us for not protesting earlier. No one could knew that new feature would break the older behavior.
Also I remember discussion about 'X' for 'removing soldiers from all crafts' and 'Z' for 'removing soldiers from the selected one'. Despite former being completely useless, Meridian said it is an old feature and will not change that. That is why no one was prepared for what was coming.
Although being able to mark soldiers on battlescape is somewhat useful.
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The new feature can be useful in certain situations I suppose. But I don't understand why the Alt shortcut had to be changed. It's not like intercepting Alt prevents you from intercepting Alt+C.
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This is mockery to blame us for not protesting earlier.
I am not blaming anybody for the hotkey change.
That part was clear and closed for me already after Solarius' first post.
You can stop talking about it, I got it the first time.
I specifically and explicitly quoted and asked ONLY about the NEW feature and why he thinks it's useless.
So that I can decide whether to remove the new (useless!) feature, or whether I should find a different solution and keep the new (useless?) feature.
Why are you mocking me for trying to gather information?
Are you actually going to propose a solution/improvement or are you here only to complain?
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But I don't understand why the Alt shortcut had to be changed. It's not like intercepting Alt prevents you from intercepting Alt+C.
When I was playtesting it, the yellow motion scanner arrows (and the yellow current/selected unit arrow) were mixing with the yellow custom unit arrows.
I could not distinguish which is which.
So I started testing how to improve the readability of the situation.
1. One option was to have different shortcuts for motion scanner and for custom arrows.
2. Second option was to only allow custom arrows on friendly units.
3. Third option was to stop using the yellow custom arrows and only use other colors.
The current solution actually has all three of these, because they all helped with the readability and because I felt comfortable with that.
EDIT: option 1 was never released, you just made me believe it was... shame on you!
I see that not everybody is comfortable with that, so we should brainstorm, which of those three should be reverted, or replaced with something else.
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Hmm. Here's how I'd implement this feature:
- Instead of an arrow, I'd make it a question/exclamation mark
- Put the mark the top right of the sprite (same height as the direction indicator)
- Don't use multiple colors, a single color for the mark is fine (while OP suggests colors, they're not necessary for the purpose)
- Show the mark even if the user isn't holding down any keys
- Instead of Alt+C, use:
-- CTRL+LMB click on the unit (shouldn't clash with gun force fire)
-- First click gives is question mark
-- Second click turns it into exclamation mark
-- Third click removes the mark
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When I was playtesting it, the yellow motion scanner arrows (and the yellow current/selected unit arrow) were mixing with the yellow custom unit arrows.
I could not distinguish which is which.
That's a fair point, even if you change the yellow custom arrows to another color it could still be a cluster fest of arrows if everything is displayed. Perhaps leaving ALT for the old facing/motion scanner markers and if you do CTRL+ALT it only displays the custom markers (?). Altho I guess this would also require the color cycling to change to CTRL+ALT+C if that's even an option. Alternatively, could the directional arrows be repurposed here and be the ones that change color giving them a dual purpose? If it's an option, then everything could remain within the ALT press and ALT+C without having to use CTRL.
I don't know about reducing the available colors, they're more discernable than changing the symbol being displayed. "Shouldn't clash with force fire"? Why wouldn't it?
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they're more discernable than changing the symbol being displayed
Wrong.
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Wrong.
Sure bud. Ignored.
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The current solution actually has all three of these, because they all helped with the readability and because I felt comfortable with that.
(facing indicator is actually just a side effect of 1. since it shares a hotkey with the motion scanner; I didn't even pay attention to it, since I practically don't use it and didn't use it during the tests either)
I see that not everybody is comfortable with that, so we should brainstorm, which of those three should be reverted, or replaced with something else.
In fact, if you enhance the scanner effect by fully displaying the enemy units it detects, then which and what the arrows will be will no longer matter.
And so, I am for the most convenient option for using the scanner. That is, one key displays the arrows of the units detected by the scanner. There was an "Alt" key and it would be better to leave it that way. And it would be desirable for the color of the arrows to be different.
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Sure bud.
Human eye/brain is much better at perceiving shapes/edges/contrast than it is at perceiving color/texture. This is scientifically proven and it's one of the first things that anyone studying graphics design learns. Furthermore, using colors for differentiation is also a bad idea on random-pattern backgrounds (like in battles here) because the human perception of color depends on the background the color is placed on. Lastly, computer screens don't always have good light conditions; poor contrast or sun glare will make color perception even worse. And hey, let's not talk about the color-blind people.
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And how does anyone use this new color feature? In what case can it be useful?
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Here's my take, FWIW;
From what I can tell, the only complaint seems to be that the alt key has been remapped from its previous role to a different mapping. So, while the functionality hasn't been actually removed, it ended up messing with the ingrained muscle memory for the function - and in twitch games and semi-repetitive strategies both, muscle memory is Kind Of A King. And since it's incredibly handy to for spotting enemies in visually noisy areas, for some players, it gets used a lot. Also, the switch from a single key to a two-key combo makes it more inconvenient, but that might just be me.
And as for the actual unit tagging feature itself, while I haven't really formed a definite opinion yet, I'm firmly in the "if you don't like it, don't use it" camp.
So, as far as I can tell, the simplest and least intrusive way of resolving this would be to map alt back to its default behaviour, and use ctrl-alt for the unit tagging.
Another option might be to merge both features and have alt highlight both unit directions as well as the marked units - at a quick look, it doesn't seem like they conflict with each other.
And finally, there might be the option of defining a hotkey for each option in settings, but that would probably mean implementation of modifier keys for keybinds, which may or may not be worth the trouble overall.
That's basically my view on the situation.
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And finally, there might be the option of defining a hotkey for each option in settings, but that would probably mean implementation of modifier keys for keybinds, which may or may not be worth the trouble overall.
No, it's a very good solution, but only if all the functions are there. I mean not only this one, but also the function keys "forceFire", "sprayWaypoints", "Running\Strafing\Sneaking" and so on. And let everyone customize it as they want.
Сan tinker with the keyboard shortcuts... or not. For example, I use a maximum of 5-6 keys from the entire list and play mainly with the mouse out of habit, since this is not StarCraft, where you need to be a virtuoso pianist, which quickly gets tiring.
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Are you actually going to propose a solution/improvement or are you here only to complain?
Return Alt for scanner.
For markers use any other unused key/key combination, I don't care which.
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I think best way to solve it is make poll to see what functionary should have priority in keybinding for `alt`, if 100 people used old keybinding but new is used by 5 then we should go back to previous version, but if 100 want new keybinding and only 5 want old version then we should stick to new.
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I think best way to solve it is make poll to see what functionary should have priority in keybinding for `alt`, if 100 people used old keybinding but new is used by 5 then we should go back to previous version, but if 100 want new keybinding and only 5 want old version then we should stick to new.
Wouldn't it be more practical to give players the ability to assign keys to all functions themselves? I think that would suit absolutely everyone.
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Some keys can't be easy bindable, like you can't write "alt" key as this is special key. Another is that is "state-key" this mean as long you press it something is changed instead of other keys that do one action after pressing them.
Question is how much time Meridian is ready to spend to make bindable special keys, if in poll 50 people is on each side then it would be worth while to support both camps by new binging mechanics or at least user config toggle.
[ps]
If Meridian do not see point in changing it, I can always bring my heavy cannons :D I already exposed to other graphic script hooks state of alt, ctr and shift.
Justification could that there is lot more possible things to show to user beside thing that Meridian already did.
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Some keys can't be easy bindable, like you can't write "alt" key as this is special key. Another is that is "state-key" this mean as long you press it something is changed instead of other keys that do one action after pressing them.
Question is how much time Meridian is ready to spend to make bindable special keys, if in poll 50 people is on each side then it would be worth while to support both camps by new binging mechanics or at least user config toggle.
Just need to change the algorithm. Write a key? What?! Assign a key - click - the system accepts the key, or group of keys that were pressed. If there are matches, it cancels this key, or group of keys, from other functions. This works in many games, including very old ones. Is it really impossible to implement this in OXCE+?
Well, as a last resort, can use the key numbers, as in "options.cfg" and release a "README" for beginners, where it will be described which number corresponds to which key. For key combinations, allow using something like this - "51,105".
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We are not stupid.
I assure you my IQ is higher than 7.
I am not going to write a 2 page essay about why things which look easy are not always easy.
If you want to try implementing it, feel free, we are open source.
It's definitely possible to implement (almost) anything you can imagine.
As for now, I return alt where it was and bind the new feature to alt+ctrl.
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Thanks, man. I really appreciate it. And sorry for the negative feedback, I assure you it was not fun to give...
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Just need to change the algorithm. Write a key? What?! Assign a key - click - the system accepts the key, or group of keys that were pressed. If there are matches, it cancels this key, or group of keys, from other functions. This works in many games, including very old ones. Is it really impossible to implement this in OXCE+?
If you are so smart say how exactly any engine "Assign a key", and I said "write" not "press" this are two completely different concept for software, I assume you are familial with diffret keyboard-layouts, can you explain how exactly any game engine handle this? and what then is difference between "writing text" and "pressing keys" (not mentioning "key up" and "key down")?
OXC have over 13 years, if someone decide not support special keys as bindable keys, now your only option is rewrite from scratch whole key-handling to propagate all required information.
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And nobody mentioned proximity detector? I am joining to this demonstration. This is mockery to blame us for not protesting earlier. No one could knew that new feature would break the older behavior.
Return Alt for scanner.
For markers use any other unused key/key combination, I don't care which.
So, I checked the implementation and the motion scanner hotkey change was never released.
(it was only experimented with during development and play-testing)
So big thanks for spreading fake news and initiating flame-wars.
Also thanks to everyone else for joining the pitchfork hunt without trying it even once.
You guys are really the worst.
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Thanks, man. I really appreciate it. And sorry for the negative feedback, I assure you it was not fun to give...
Facing indicator hotkey has been changed from alt+ctrl to just alt. In OXCE 7.14.1.
Motion scanner hotkey remains unchanged and is still just alt.
Custom marker hotkey remains unchanged and is still just alt.
Summary: everything is displayed using just alt, alt+ctrl is not needed for anything
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Thanks, appreciated!
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This is a more general question. Would it be possible to trigger the build process automatically for tagged subreleases, say 7.14.1, 2, etc.? So that users could grab the latest subrelease from https://openxcom.org/oxce/release/ (or some other site or directory) to more easily test new things. As far as I understand currently you would need to compile it youself, which is a high bar for most people.
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This is a more general question. Would it be possible to trigger the build process automatically for tagged subreleases, say 7.14.1, 2, etc.? So that users could grab the latest subrelease from https://openxcom.org/oxce/release/ (or some other site or directory) to more easily test new things. As far as I understand currently you would need to compile it youself, which is a high bar for most people.
You can download any test or latest build without manual compilation from the http://108.61.157.159/versions/win/ (http://108.61.157.159/versions/win/)
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I'm late to the party here, but I would like to say thanks for changing ALT back to its previous function. That's probably my most used hotkey besides selecting weapons.
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I agree that "show the facing" deserves to have a single key, so better leave Alt at its old functionality.
I wonder if it would make sense to show the custom markers all the time, without pressing any key. The only collision I see is that if a marked unit is selected, its arrow turns yellow and you don't see the custom marker any more.