OpenXcom Forum
Modding => Released Mods => The X-Com Files => Topic started by: SickBoySid on January 30, 2023, 12:24:41 am
-
im on my 3rd (mostly ironman lol) Veteran play though this year. i played 3-4 years ago aswell. my last 2 runs ended in late 1999s and 2000s.
i love the game but i tend to have issues with the manors ( the screenshots are from late 1998 so its not even 1999 yet )
So i think the manors are a fair bit harder then earlier alien terror missions, ive tackled them in a few ways
-night ops attack with good nigh owl and spelunker commendations so they have 12+3~ night vision ( tho reinforcements can spawn on them and kill them before they even get a turn :c )
-spam smokes and antipersonnel mines
-zerg the building and hold with mix mash of alien weapons
-did one in hazmat suits and lit everything on fire lol was kind of funny but hard i think it causes reinforcements to spawn constantly
-i go during the day and use the Crazy broken far superior to the miniguns HMGs with TRITANIUM VESTs only issue is that i need my beefcakes to not be wounded for 48+ days with sickbay after clearing a manor cus they got 90fkin hp with 80 hp missing :'(
even tho i can take them out it takes alot of time and effort to do so and i generally always lose a bit of the A team
im not sure if its my playstyle / research path. or what im doing wrong but i often get 25-32+ manors in vet difficulty before 1999 and most of them have MIGS so they make the map pretty hell and i have to bait and its just really annoying especially in 2 of my 3 playthrus they spawned migs Ontop of my main HQ base at some point
my monthly score is generally 800-2000+ every month until mid-late 1998 where the manors cause too much activity, i take every mission and research everything for the points im not sure if theirs some sort of balancing that makes more manors spawn because of my high monthly score or something ?
also i had one where i got reinforcements literally every 2 turns ? this is just a theory but i think mass explosives and trigger them to spawn. it happened on my mass fire nade and anti personal mine attempt with like 95+ kills...
bonus dose anyone have any tips on dealing with napalm nades ? the AP usage of a fire extinguisher is really high and it can knock out units and sap AP.
i LOVE the x files mod its amazing but god the 30 mig manors that spawn 70-100 units in 1998 sap my fkin soul
-
Manors have been nerfed for two versions now, so presumably your experience will improve with 2.8.
tho reinforcements can spawn on them and kill them before they even get a turn
Er, what? Manor reinforcements have had 'minTurn: 3' for as long as I recall. Granted, I went from 2.1 to 2.5, so maybe 2.3 had different values.
i think it causes reinforcements to spawn constantly
...
not sure if theirs some sort of balancing that makes more manors spawn because of my high monthly score or something ?
...
also i had one where i got reinforcements literally every 2 turns ? this is just a theory but i think mass explosives and trigger them to spawn.
Reinforcements have no such hidden mechanics. They have a fixed minimum turn, a fixed chance of showing up per turn, a fixed number of 'waves' and (mostly) fixed directions these waves come from.
i often get 25-32+ manors in vet difficulty before 1999
Praise Solarius, for now manors don't evolve immediately and don't spawn so much.
Although you used to have a 4*3*8% chance to get one, so an average of one per month for 15 months before 1999. Getting 25+ means you got unlucky.
bonus dose anyone have any tips on dealing with napalm nades ? the AP usage of a fire extinguisher is really high and it can knock out units and sap AP.
Chemweapon extinguisher clips. Though being on fire is not too bad. Kinda like heavy fatal wounds, 5-10 damage per turn, mitigated by resistance and with pretty good chances of going out on its own. Better chances in fire-resistant armour.
i LOVE the x files mod its amazing but god the 30 mig manors that spawn 70-100 units in 1998 sap my fkin soul
You'll be seeing more tier 1 manors now, which 'only' have ~50 enemies plus maids.
-
Ah not sure what V i have. i got it off of google drive because i has having some issues with downloading stuff from openxcom for a while and i was really itching to play x com files again but that's really useful information if this run falls flat i might update it.
and the reinforcements might of been every 3 and felt like every 2 because of my frustration of the spam of units that kept spawning
the massive spam of manor thing happened in 2 of my 3 runs so maybe i was just really unlucky
but the mods really good and fits pretty well in theme to the original idea of the main game fits the vibe of xcom longwar mods but far better imo and the manors ( and lack of direction with researching with the beef cake research tree) are my only real complaints i hope the patreon dose decently
-
Ah not sure what V i have.
See attachement.
i got it off of google drive because i has having some issues with downloading stuff from openxcom for a while
You can always get the latest WIP version from here (https://github.com/SolariusScorch/XComFiles).
lack of direction with researching with the beef cake research tree
You mean the cake research? :P
Otherwise, don't get killed and rack up Senior and Solid commendations. See RD Stormies, research RD Storm program. Get the eyeball man and study how to genemod yourself. See Zombies, research Zombies and do missions until you can become a Zombie yourself.
i hope the patreon dose decently
Sadly, Patreon only works as a source of income for a very small number of developers.
-
Patreon is not a "source of income", don't say that as it makes me look bad. It's a tip jar I set up because people kept asking me about it.
-
Patreon is a source of income for a (quite small) number of people. And a much bigger number aspire to make it one and fail.
It's okay-ish as a tip jar, unless you want to do risky content.
-
Patreon is a source of income for a (quite small) number of people. And a much bigger number aspire to make it one and fail.
Indeed, just wanted to clarify that it's not a source of income to me or anything. From the context, it was easy to assume that I do.
It's okay-ish as a tip jar, unless you want to do risky content.
What qualifies as "risky" in the US is impenetrable to an outsider anyway. :P
-
Indeed, just wanted to clarify that it's not a source of income to me or anything. From the context, it was easy to assume that I do.
Yeah, my statement could indeed be misread that way. :-[
What qualifies as "risky" in the US is impenetrable to an outsider anyway.
QFT. Bestiality with fantasy creatures is okay, (fully clothed!) 18+ high schoolers are forbidden. :-X
-
also i had one where i got reinforcements literally every 2 turns ? this is just a theory but i think mass explosives and trigger them to spawn. it happened on my mass fire nade and anti personal mine attempt with like 95+ kills...
Don't breach the mansion entrances and do not go in the backyard unless accompanied by an adult.
In my experience, this is what triggers reinforcements. You can usually take out a mansion by strategically placing your guys around the parameter and picking off enemies as they exit.
You may have to enter the mansion to get the last few, etc. But do so with a plan.
Set your guys up so they are ready for the next turn because they're coming and they're coming hard and fast.
And I believe there are no more than 3 (or 4) rounds of reinforcements. So no, they won't be coming 10 times per mission.
-
QFT. Bestiality with fantasy creatures is okay, (fully clothed!) 18+ high schoolers are forbidden. :-X
And if you slip up or forget it Saint Jason will remind you of it most violently.
Points to those old enough to know the movies I am referencing.
-
As to how to clear manors here is my formula:
- Rush for the Osprey. You need the manpower.
- Use at dedicated grenadiers with smoke weapons. At least 1, maybe 2 if you want to be extra safe. I use 2 personally.
- Rush promotion 3 and get a mortar. Or two. No more than three though. Four is entirely sufficient. Five is more than adequate... You get the picture. But like, seriously 2 is enough.
When breaching set your forces up so that you have clear lanes of fire and are outside of grenade throwing range of the main house. Failing to do so can be disastrous as a single grenade can ruin your day. If your spawn is set up so that you can't easily do that just load a save from before you landed and reroll the map. There is no shame to this. Nobody is looking.
Only attack during the day. There are those that would tell you to use night as your cover but I disagree. Night is the great equalizer. And only fools fight fair.
Yes, your enemies can't see you but you can't see them either. And unlike the AI you don't cheat and don't know where the enemy is. And you actually care about losses as well where as the AI can afford to loose a scout or two. So night time is always your disadvantage.
Instead learn to use smoke liberally to control the sight lines in a way that is to your advantage and your advantage alone.
When a good position is established place your mortars in the rear and your riflemen in the front. Set up a firing line flanked by smoke and let your enemy wonder in. Ideally you should have some sort of murder tunnel set up. Barring that a murder cone. With smoke cutting sight lines so that your enemies have to wonder into optimal weapons range before you spot each other and waste their TU walking into your reaction fire.
Use mortars once you can get them to obliterate anything outside of that range, anything that comes out of a corner or really just anything.
Finally avoid Red Dawn and MIB related manors until you hit Promotion III. You can get it off just killing off one of the other cults and adding mortars and rockets to your arsenal really helps.
-
I really haven't explored Motor shells enough in this game. Gonna have to revisit this my next play through.
-
I really haven't explored Motor shells enough in this game. Gonna have to revisit this my next play through.
Mortars are the gods own weapons in this mod. They are reasonably accurate (as much as you'll ever need with a giant bomb). And can wreck enemies from sniper rifle distance even with cover in between. And they remain useful well into the late game as long as you don't mind picking up the pieces and taking no prisoners.
My tactic is always to keep a guy with a mortar next to my landing craft offering fire support in case a heavily armored enemy or a bunch of enemies show up.
Oh, and the automatic mortar is just sick too. Like that thing is literally the Microsoft Excel of weaponry. It can do anything. It will do anything.
-
Don't breach the mansion entrances and do not go in the backyard unless accompanied by an adult.
In my experience, this is what triggers reinforcements.
Reinforcements are entirely based on turns passed (minimum 5 or 3 depending on manor tier) and random chance (10% per turn).
So night time is always your disadvantage.
Throwing flares like candy, using incendiary ammo and just blowing shit up so it burns. Using bats as spotters, maybe. Tends to take too much fiddling compared to smoke and punishes mistakes harder. And personally I cannot throw flares like candy due to the 12-tile throwing limit.
Instead learn to use smoke liberally to control the sight lines in a way that is to your advantage and your advantage alone.
You can also camp in a perimeter building if one presents itself. That's likely safer, but takes more maneuvering and makes mortars hard to use.
In my experience, the AI tends to dawdle around a lot when it comes to pure firefights. What kills you is either a grenade or other explosive, or just so much incoming fire (Red Dawn snipers :( ) that they're bound to get lucky sometime.
MIB related manors
There are MiB manors?
-
Reinforcements are entirely based on turns passed (minimum 5 or 3 depending on manor tier) and random chance (10% per turn).
Have not experienced that at all. Matter of fact I have been able to reproduce reinforcements just by either A- entering the mansions door, or B- going past a certain point into the back of the mansion.
We can ask Solarius about it, he should know what triggers the reinforcements.
Some missions are triggered by turn based. but that seems to be the Alien meetings (with MIB).
On rare occasions, I've made it through mansions without seeing any reinforcements.
Including on this thread
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10878.msg150759.html#msg150759
I also did the mansion. The deed is done. Was super hard. Funny thing is, I'm not sure how i did it but the reinforcements never showed up.
-
Have not experienced that at all.
...
We can ask Solarius about it, he should know what triggers the reinforcements.
I know what triggers them:
reinforcements: &EliteSoldiersAndServantsGreaterManorReinforcements
- type: servants
...
- type: firstwave
executionOdds: 10
minTurn: 5
maxRuns: 1
mapBlockFilterType: 2
spawnBlocks: [NORTH, WEST, EAST]
useSpawnNodes: true
spawnZLevels: [0]
minDistanceFromXcomUnits: 10
reinforcements: &EliteSoldiersAndServantsGreatestManorReinforcements
- type: servants
...
- type: northwave
executionOdds: 10
minTurn: 3
maxRuns: 1
mapBlockFilterType: 2
spawnBlocks: [NORTH]
useSpawnNodes: true
spawnZLevels: [0]
minDistanceFromXcomUnits: 10
- type: southwave
executionOdds: 10
minTurn: 3
maxRuns: 1
mapBlockFilterType: 2
spawnBlocks: [NORTH, WEST, EAST]
useSpawnNodes: true
spawnZLevels: [0]
minDistanceFromXcomUnits: 10
- type: eastwave
executionOdds: 10
minTurn: 3
maxRuns: 1
mapBlockFilterType: 2
spawnBlocks: [EAST]
useSpawnNodes: true
spawnZLevels: [0]
minDistanceFromXcomUnits: 10
- type: westwave
executionOdds: 10
minTurn: 3
maxRuns: 1
mapBlockFilterType: 2
spawnBlocks: [WEST]
useSpawnNodes: true
spawnZLevels: [0]
minDistanceFromXcomUnits: 10
Observe the 'minTurn: 5', 'minTurn: 3', 'executionOdds: 10' and 'maxRuns: 1' entries. 'Servants' are just maids spawning in before the mission starts.
Matter of fact I have been able to reproduce reinforcements just by either A- entering the mansions door, or B- going past a certain point into the back of the mansion.
I suggest that this is largely due to reinforcement waves being big - so a single wave might look like several - and tending to 'collect' at the edges of the map. And the human tendency to see patterns where there are none. :)
Some missions are triggered by turn based. but that seems to be the Alien meetings (with MIB).
On rare occasions, I've made it through mansions without seeing any reinforcements.
These are deterministic and always spawn at turn 2. Manors are not deterministic, so might seem different. The same goes for no reinforcements - that 10% chance per turn is not all that big.
-
Throwing flares like candy, using incendiary ammo and just blowing shit up so it burns. Using bats as spotters, maybe. Tends to take too much fiddling compared to smoke and punishes mistakes harder. And personally I cannot throw flares like candy due to the 12-tile throwing limit.
Tell me about it. Like, I guess it's something you can pull off if you are an expert. But for us normal folks smoke just works. :D
You can also camp in a perimeter building if one presents itself. That's likely safer, but takes more maneuvering and makes mortars hard to use.
If you can find a good building to camp absolutely. I just didn't include it because it's too much of a random thing. But yes. If a wall presents it self as cover use it. Just watch out for corners. People can throw grenades out of those.
This said, mortars still work, you just don't park them next to the wall but in the opposite end of your long line of 16 dudes with reaction fire. ;D
In my experience, the AI tends to dawdle around a lot when it comes to pure firefights. What kills you is either a grenade or other explosive, or just so much incoming fire (Red Dawn snipers :( ) that they're bound to get lucky sometime.
That's why I advise avoiding Red Dawn bases until after you get Promotion III off easier ones like the Lotus. Mortars > Snipers.
That and vehicles. RD and Exalt have a chance of spawning tanks in their bases whilst others don't.
There are MiB manors?
I got them confused with EXALT.
-
If you can find a good building to camp absolutely.
I mean, you can go into the building to camp. When it's not seethrough, like maybe the one with a library. Then peek out to take a shot, go back to avoid return fire completely, save some TU for reaction-firing anything that tries to poke its head in. I find it easier to just kill and panic the cultists, but if you play ironman, it might be safer to do that.
...Exalt have a chance of spawning tanks in their bases whilst others don't.
They do? I don't see it in the data right now, and don't really recall it either. I'm pretty sure I've seen an EXALT armoured car at some point, but not sure where and whther that might have been something exclusive to some older version.
I got them confused with EXALT.
Yeah, I kinda wish the Liquidators' obvious MiB theme was exploited at some point.
-
[quote author=Juku121 link=topic=11052.msg152933#msg152933 date=1676076938]
I [i]know[/i] what triggers them:
mapBlockFilterType: 2
I'm curious, what is the "mapBlockFilterType" ? And is it possible this is what I'm referring to ?
-
mapBlockFilterType: 2
I'm curious, what is the "mapBlockFilterType" ? And is it possible this is what I'm referring to ?
This merely tells the reinforcement routine to ignore any map blocks marked as reinforcement blocks and just use the hardcoded values in 'spawnBlocks: [blablabla]'. I don't think XCF even has any instances of 'markAsReinforcementsBlock'.
So, no, I don't think so.
Can you provide a precise description of what you think happened to you and why it cannot be covered by turn 3/5 spawns with 10% chance per turn of popping out of thin air some distance away from your agents?
-
Can you provide a precise description of what you think happened to you and why it cannot be covered by turn 3/5 spawns with 10% chance per turn of popping out of thin air some distance away from your agents?
Yes indeed my friend.
Any manor which I have done, there has always been a triggering point in which reinforcements have been activated.
I've even done tests by reloading saved turns and not entering the manor (or going into the back yard of the manor). This is also true for "Golden Towers". Once you either pass a certain point on ground floor (or proceed too early to the second floor in the mission).
Though I've done other tests where sending a soldier with jet pack to the roof, shooting a hole in the roof and entering that way will also trigger reinforcements.
If this is just a coincidence than I am extremely surprised. Because as I've said, I've been able to reload saves and avoid the reinforcements by merely not breaching these areas.
-
Note that the message about reinforcements means at least one 'wave' has spawned in. It's not a general 'Reinforcements are now activated!' alert. You can get this several times.
I've even done tests by reloading saved turns and not entering the manor (or going into the back yard of the manor).
If this is just a coincidence than I am extremely surprised.
Reloading means relatively little, since any given turn has at least ~2/3 chance of not getting reinforcements. So if you reload, chances are reinforcements won't reappear. I just reloaded six times in a row and they didn't respawn.
I think what's happening is that your mansion door assaults coincide with turn 3-5. I don't think triggering reinforcements by entering a specific map block is even possible. You could spawn enemies with something like land mines, perhaps, but they'd just appear next to where the mine was.
Try a manor assault, breach the front door, save and reload several times. Or try a tier 2 manor, blow the roof before turn 5 and enter. I think you'll see that there's no correlation.
Edit: Or you could just edit alienDeployments_XCOMFILES.rul, find
reinforcements: &EliteSoldiersAndServantsGreatestManorReinforcements
- type: servants
...
- type: northwave
executionOdds: 10
minTurn: 3
maxRuns: 1
...
- type: southwave
executionOdds: 10
minTurn: 3
maxRuns: 1
...
- type: eastwave
executionOdds: 10
minTurn: 3
maxRuns: 1
...
- type: westwave
executionOdds: 10
minTurn: 3
maxRuns: 1
...
and replace all of these with
- type: [whatever]wave
turns: [0]
maxRuns: 1
...
You'll discover that all the reinforcements have already taken up positions regardless of what you do to the front door.
This is also true for "Golden Towers".
Golden Towers have pretty much the same reinforcements as manors.
Edit2: I think this is another case of something random with an explanation someone finds reasonable and will just not believe it doesn't work that way. Some people have been swearing up and down that they could stop infiltrations by shooting down the Battleships, or that downing a UFO with a Cannon instead of missiles increases the chance of leaving the power source(s) intact.
-
Note that the message about reinforcements means at least one 'wave' has spawned in. It's not a general 'Reinforcements are now activated!' alert. You can get this several times.
Reloading means relatively little, since any given turn has at least ~2/3 chance of not getting reinforcements. So if you reload, chances are reinforcements won't reappear. I just reloaded six times in a row and they didn't respawn.
You'll discover that all the reinforcements have already taken up positions regardless of what you do to the front door.
Golden Towers have pretty much the same reinforcements as manors.
Edit2: I think this is another case of something random with an explanation someone finds reasonable and will just not believe it doesn't work that way. Some people have been swearing up and down that they could stop infiltrations by shooting down the Battleships, or that downing a UFO with a Cannon instead of missiles increases the chance of leaving the power source(s) intact.
You could be right Juku.
You have a really in depth, great knowledge of XCF. So i totally respect where your coming from and I keep an open mind.
I'll try doing more tests.
-
Note that the message about reinforcements means at least one 'wave' has spawned in. It's not a general 'Reinforcements are now activated!' alert. You can get this several times.
Reloading means relatively little, since any given turn has at least ~2/3 chance of not getting reinforcements. So if you reload, chances are reinforcements won't reappear. I just reloaded six times in a row and they didn't respawn.
Think I figured out what was going on.
This newer version (7.8.7) seems to be a little different than the previous version.
You are right, it seems to be more random now in this newer version (using turn based random). Previous version was not like this.
-
Unless there was a big bug with reinforcements that somehow totally coincidentally made reinforcements read the map situation, I doubt it. I still suggest observer bias or limited samples creating apparent patterns where there are none. :)
I could be wrong, of course, but so far I've seen nothing to indicate that this is the case.
-
I could be wrong, of course, but so far I've seen nothing to indicate that this is the case.
I could be wrong too.
Maybe solarias can tell us if it's changed any in this past version.
-
I can't remember changing it... But it doesn't mean much. :-*