Author Topic: Terrain Pack - Info & Feedback  (Read 272299 times)

Offline hellrazor

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1200 on: August 29, 2015, 01:31:28 pm »
Port Attacks should be removed whenever I find time to update the Pack. As for the rest you can remove those yourself.

Why remove it? I like it. You could add the Shipmission towards it with an alternate deployment in theory (that is at last what i would do :)).

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1201 on: August 29, 2015, 01:38:19 pm »
I've removed port missions from the FMP simply because I couldn't get them to work properly. Since their maps do not contain "true" (TFTD) see tiles, only more generic water tiles, I've reasoned that most if not all great cities lay by rivers or lakes, and therefore added the terrain to normal terror missions as an option. Dioxine did the same in Piratez.

Offline Orz

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1202 on: August 31, 2015, 09:18:23 pm »
I've removed port missions from the FMP simply because I couldn't get them to work properly. Since their maps do not contain "true" (TFTD) see tiles, only more generic water tiles, I've reasoned that most if not all great cities lay by rivers or lakes, and therefore added the terrain to normal terror missions as an option. Dioxine did the same in Piratez.

Is this why walking up/down any stairs in port attacks sound like you're stepping on a puddle of water?

Offline Hobbes

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1203 on: August 31, 2015, 10:08:34 pm »
I've removed port missions from the FMP simply because I couldn't get them to work properly. Since their maps do not contain "true" (TFTD) see tiles, only more generic water tiles, I've reasoned that most if not all great cities lay by rivers or lakes, and therefore added the terrain to normal terror missions as an option. Dioxine did the same in Piratez.

What do you mean by "true" see tiles? The waves and stuff?

I'm actually going to remove the alienDeployment for Ship Attacks and put them and Island Attacks in the Terror Mission to simplify everything. I still haven't decided what to do with Ship Attacks since those require changes to missionScripting.

Is this why walking up/down any stairs in port attacks sound like you're stepping on a puddle of water?

That's due to something else, it has been already fixed but I'm waiting to release a new version until I finish the next update of my other mod  UFO Redux (which will still take some time to complete).
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 10:15:45 pm by Hobbes »

Offline hellrazor

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1204 on: September 03, 2015, 03:14:11 pm »
What do you mean by "true" see tiles? The waves and stuff?

I'm actually going to remove the alienDeployment for Ship Attacks and put them and Island Attacks in the Terror Mission to simplify everything. I still haven't decided what to do with Ship Attacks since those require changes to missionScripting.

And if they need it, were is the problem? As long you remember that label id's are shared between mods there shouldn't be a major issue. missionScripting should be the one which makes the least problems between Mods.
Defined deployments on the other hand can cause a problem.
And why would you remove the portattack, you also use the texture definition it uses for island attacks and put them in the same deployment.

I guess that ship attacks would generated as missionsites from UFO's or how do handle this?
Ship attacks also could be having a terrain were a Oil/Gas Plattform is attacked by the aliens.
Or Artic research stations.

That's due to something else, it has been already fixed but I'm waiting to release a new version until I finish the next update of my other mod  UFO Redux (which will still take some time to complete).

I can't wait for the release for both.
And btw Hobbes, sine i already redid the routes for the Lukes Expanded Terror Maps, i will do the tilereplacements with MADDECOR.MCD file. I assume you didn't change anything around in it or? (Any differences towards the one you gave me initially?)

Offline Hobbes

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1205 on: September 03, 2015, 03:29:54 pm »
And if they need it, were is the problem? As long you remember that label id's are shared between mods there shouldn't be a major issue. missionScripting should be the one which makes the least problems between Mods.
Defined deployments on the other hand can cause a problem.
And why would you remove the portattack, you also use the texture definition it uses for island attacks and put them in the same deployment.

I guess that ship attacks would generated as missionsites from UFO's or how do handle this?
Ship attacks also could be having a terrain were a Oil/Gas Plattform is attacked by the aliens.
Or Artic research stations.

The issue is that having PORT_ATTACK alienDeployment on the Terrain Pack also requires modders to either remove or add it to their own rulesets, and the alienDeployment is only necessary for the different mission briefing. So TFTD's PORT_ATTACK, ISLAND_ATTACK and SHIP_ATTACK deployments can be simply replaced by the standard TERROR_MISSION for better compatibility.

SHIP_ATTACKs also require the addition of a single line to missionScripting but that shouldn't be a problem.

Quote
And btw Hobbes, sine i already redid the routes for the Lukes Expanded Terror Maps, i will do the tilereplacements with MADDECOR.MCD file. I assume you didn't change anything around in it or? (Any differences towards the one you gave me initially?)

I haven't changed anything else, so go right ahead.

Offline hellrazor

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1206 on: September 11, 2015, 05:16:36 am »
Found something really new :D

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1207 on: October 03, 2015, 06:49:01 pm »
Hobbes, I hate to be a bother, but can we get a timeframe for terrain update? Redux is a great mod in itself, but the terrain pack is being used in several large mods, so I'm quite eager to see it progress. If there are no plans to do it in a foreseeable future, I'd be happy to tackle it myself, but I wouldn't want to go against your plans.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1208 on: October 03, 2015, 09:32:57 pm »
Hobbes, I hate to be a bother, but can we get a timeframe for terrain update? Redux is a great mod in itself, but the terrain pack is being used in several large mods, so I'm quite eager to see it progress. If there are no plans to do it in a foreseeable future, I'd be happy to tackle it myself, but I wouldn't want to go against your plans.

At the moment bringing Redux to 1.0 is my priority, so I can't give a timeframe for the Terrain Pack. Unless there are CTD bugs I'm not going to touch the Terrain Pack until I at least finish Redux's terrains, since several of those will find their way to the Terrain Pack (several other terrains will not) and it will be actually quite easy to transport them from Redux to the Terrain Pack since they will be already tested and ready to use. But working on two mods at the same time is really a no-no at this point because of the work (and potential for errors) involved with keeping 2 rulesets updated.

In any case I've just checked my terrain 'to do' list and this is how it goes:
* Rework Dawn City A maps - not done
* Urban adapted for biomes/weather - done for snow
* Port terrains rework - done
* Polis routes - done
* Area 51 more large buildings - not done
* Complex terrain - in progress
* Grass inside UFOs - done
* Mountain cave entrance blocked, jungle blocking Skyranger - done
* More 'temple' terrains - not a priority at the moment
* Plane (TFTD terrain) - in progress
* Polar Stations - not a priority at the moment
* Luke's Expanded Terror & civilian's CityAddOn - waiting for hellrazor to finish the maps
* Island & TFTD Ships - done
* Redesign Savannah terrain - not a priority at the moment
* More swamp terrains - not a priority at the moment
* Slum terrain - done
* More new civilians - done (a TON of them already finished and more coming)
* More Geoscape cities - done
* Reworked terrain distribution - done

Anything else you wanted added to the list?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 07:10:52 pm by Hobbes »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1209 on: October 03, 2015, 10:29:54 pm »
What about Commercial? It's one of the most interesting terrains to fight in, though it needs more blocks - for now it is too repeatable.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1210 on: October 04, 2015, 01:11:35 am »
What about Commercial? It's one of the most interesting terrains to fight in, though it needs more blocks - for now it is too repeatable.

That terrain could use a complete rework but at the moment it is at the bottom of my list. There are so many terror site terrains already available that will take a long time before a player starts getting bored of the new ones.

Offline davide

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1211 on: October 06, 2015, 10:30:50 am »
...
Anything else you wanted added to the list?



Only if I remind you some Ufo2k terrains that wasn't  suitable for terror mission but them could be used in Redux mod:

"Normandy" (it could be used to recover some "data disk" from bunkers)

Yours "Siberia"

"Storm Mountain"

 :-X


Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1212 on: October 06, 2015, 10:43:32 am »
That terrain could use a complete rework but at the moment it is at the bottom of my list. There are so many terror site terrains already available that will take a long time before a player starts getting bored of the new ones.

Then would you mind if I had a go at it?

Offline hellrazor

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1213 on: October 06, 2015, 10:45:38 am »
At the moment bringing Redux to 1.0 is my priority, so I can't give a timeframe for the Terrain Pack. Unless there are CTD bugs I'm not going to touch the Terrain Pack until I at least finish Redux's terrains, since several of those will find their way to the Terrain Pack (several other terrains will not) and it will be actually quite easy to transport them from Redux to the Terrain Pack since they will be already tested and ready to use. But working on two mods at the same time is really a no-no at this point because of the work (and potential for errors) involved with keeping 2 rulesets updated.

In any case I've just checked my terrain 'to do' list and this is how it goes:
* Luke's Expanded Terror & civilian's CityAddOn - waiting for hellrazor to finish the maps
* Island & TFTD Ships - done
* Redesign Savannah terrain - not a priority at the moment
* More swamp terrains - not a priority at the moment
* Slum terrain - done
* More new civilians - done (a TON of them already finished and more coming)
* More Geoscape cities - done
* Reworked terrain distribution - done

Anything else you wanted added to the list?

I can say that Luke's Expanded Terror is nearly finished (Maps need some tile replacements to be mixable with MADURBAN), but at the moment i do not have the time to do extensive modding, i have exams coming up pretty soon, so i will focus on those, as all of you can understand.
I didn't had the time so far to take a proper look at civilians city addon stuff, but  what i have seen so far means a lot of work, especially designing routes (i am still haunted by these ~160 route nodes of CF18 from Lukes Expanded Terror..).

I can agree with Hobbes that it is easier to merge already tested stuff from his Redux Mod into the Terrain Pack, even thou i personally had prefered to work out the existing bugs in the terrain pack before doing new stuff, since now those errors will be around for a long period of time, and i guess most of them are relativly easy to fix (reworking a terrain like commercial is something else, this is something which should be done when there is appropriate time).

What we actually need is someone who has the time and the patience to recheck all the terrain pack MCD files and maps. So that it is mostly bug free before adding new stuff (i like bug hunting but unfortunatly do not have the time right now :-().

Offline Hobbes

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Re: [MAPS] Terrain Pack - updated to new mod system
« Reply #1214 on: October 06, 2015, 02:36:01 pm »
Only if I remind you some Ufo2k terrains that wasn't  suitable for terror mission but them could be used in Redux mod:

"Normandy" (it could be used to recover some "data disk" from bunkers)

Yours "Siberia"

"Storm Mountain"

 :-X

Beaches of Normandy is difficult to add, even for Redux - there's no need for additional data disks and you need to justify XCom making an amphibious assault on a fortified beach garrisoned by aliens. It's possible that I can find a use but unlikely.

I'm still trying to see if I can get Siberia added (it could also be combined with Storm Mountain) but this means a mission without UFOs or XCom craft. It would be interesting to add it since afterwards you could make several variations of it for Jungle, Desert, Tundra, etc. But this requires some sort of Facility Attack mission.

Then would you mind if I had a go at it?

Go for it. :)

I can say that Luke's Expanded Terror is nearly finished (Maps need some tile replacements to be mixable with MADURBAN), but at the moment i do not have the time to do extensive modding, i have exams coming up pretty soon, so i will focus on those, as all of you can understand.
I didn't had the time so far to take a proper look at civilians city addon stuff, but  what i have seen so far means a lot of work, especially designing routes (i am still haunted by these ~160 route nodes of CF18 from Lukes Expanded Terror..).

Just had a look at the CF18 version I have and it has around 60-70 nodes. Regardless to say, for a 20x20 map it is unnecessary to have 160 nodes and even the 60-70 nodes can be reduced. Having so many nodes is a waste of work for the results you get out of them.

Quote
I can agree with Hobbes that it is easier to merge already tested stuff from his Redux Mod into the Terrain Pack, even thou i personally had prefered to work out the existing bugs in the terrain pack before doing new stuff, since now those errors will be around for a long period of time, and i guess most of them are relativly easy to fix (reworking a terrain like commercial is something else, this is something which should be done when there is appropriate time).

What we actually need is someone who has the time and the patience to recheck all the terrain pack MCD files and maps. So that it is mostly bug free before adding new stuff (i like bug hunting but unfortunatly do not have the time right now :-().

Nearly all of the bugs should be minor since several CTDs have been already reported and fixed. Commercial and Railyard had/have major issues but Warboy1982 fixed some major bugs with routes about a month ago and those CTDs could also be from other non-terrain causes.

The Terrain Pack is a great project/asset but I wasn't much motivated for it anymore due to the limitations imposed by the vanilla game regarding terrains & missions. And you start getting diminishing returns for each new terrain you add: if there's only 1 terror site terrain on vanilla and you add 1 or 2 more then those 3 will appear frequently, but if there's 10 terror site terrains then you can have entire games where you'll never fight in some terrains - you don't get the same return as before for the same amount of work.

Redux really helped with the above because with the possibility of new missions I don't feel restricted anymore by vanilla and I can give some terrains more visibility, which is much more motivating than designing variation #39 of mountain terrain only to be used in UFO missions. :)