Alien/Sectoid Psi attacks

[redv]

I think, human psi power can be weakened.
I see two ways:
1. One human can control only one enemy.
2. Great psi-strength must be rare for humans.

[kevL]

playing the orig, Psi imbalance was at the top of my list of TODO's. Generally i pumped them up but retained a wide spread according to what aliens i felt should be resistant/vulnerable (mutons->easy, ethereals->tuff). But generally did not want my soldiers coming out of the Lab and controlling sectoid leaders, etc.

After trying it for mid-game, I ended up strengthening aliens still more (caveat: i'm not fond of psi..). Here's some examples i'm using:


- type: STR_ETHEREAL_COMMANDER
  psiStrength: 137
  psiSkill: 39
- type: STR_ETHEREAL_SOLDIER
  psiStrength: 97
  psiSkill: 37
- type: STR_SECTOID_COMMANDER
  psiStrength: 109
  psiSkill: 42
- type: STR_SECTOID_SOLDIER
  psiStrength: 57
  psiSkill: 0
- type: STR_SNAKEMAN_ENGINEER
  psiStrength: 85
  psiSkill: 0

By far the trickiest part was balancing alien Attack & Defense powers - you might want them resistant, while not totally overpowering xCom psi-elites. For this i had to play off the fact that psiDefense is a linear increase while psiAttack is exponential (and still maintain balance with what humans are capable of); hence above, the psiStrength is far greater than psiSkill, because if Skill is pushed up their attacks become overpowered (exponentially) but if Strength is decreased to compensate then their defense drops (linearly, [edit] and at 5x the rate of decreasing Skill).


that said, your suggestions, red, get no complaint from me ( tho it'd be a mod /shrug )

ref. Psionic Formulas

[redv]

Good way.
But, for whatever reason these numbers are chosen?
I think, simple solution is:

Code: [Select]

psiStrength *= 2
psiSkill *= 0.8
Then we get predictable situation: psi-attack will be increased by 2*0.8=1.6 times; psi-defense will be increased by 2 times (just about).

[kevL]

the numbers? They just came from me inputting hundreds upon hundreds of alien & xCom psi values into a graph program, all while playing, and going "hmmmmm" a lot



I ended up with values that i consider at the top of a spectrum -- ie. imo an Ethereal Commander should be able to wrap anyone around its finger if he/she gets too close. I also played (the original) for a long time using middling values -- and even then it was a lot better than Psi=WIN,


Your numbers look pretty fair to me. I haven't done the math but at a glance they look alright, as a way to eliminate Psi=WIN.

although, to have fine control or individual control over alien races & ranks a Player could turn those multipliers on, then further tweak their Chryssalids and what-not

/cheers

[wsmithjr]

After trying it for mid-game, I ended up strengthening aliens still more (caveat: i'm not fond of psi..). Here's some examples i'm using:


- type: STR_ETHEREAL_COMMANDER
  psiStrength: 137
  psiSkill: 39
- type: STR_ETHEREAL_SOLDIER
  psiStrength: 97
  psiSkill: 37
- type: STR_SECTOID_COMMANDER
  psiStrength: 109
  psiSkill: 42
- type: STR_SECTOID_SOLDIER
  psiStrength: 57
  psiSkill: 0
- type: STR_SNAKEMAN_ENGINEER
  psiStrength: 85
  psiSkill: 0

I'm really interested in trying this out.  Do you have a ruleset of all the stat changes you've made or a table of the values?  Also, what do you think about requiring an Ethereal to start the Psi research rather than a Sectoid Leader?  Maybe the 2 changes combined would nerf it too much?  Thanks.

[kevL]

here's my Ruleset, as is.

warning, it makes major changes to gameplay and probably won't even work because of the extraSounds category. MCDPatches has also been changed 'cause i did some of the fixes in the actual .Mcd's... Economy is extremely tough (and still has rough edges). Almost all Craft & UFO stats (incl. craft weapons) are changed. Almost all weapon stats are changed. Research is changed. Manufacturing is changed. Alien deployment is changed. Armor, damage resistances, and some alien stats have been changed. etc, I did this before i realized it should have been done with extra Rulesets..... Victory pts. have changed.

anyway, i hope you find what you're looking for,


uhm, Ethereals to start psi. personally I abort ethereal missions until I have psi. Recently i figured i'd be a hero and do a medium ethereal scout -- i did it, but then they pounded one of my bases. They also have a base set up in China and there's no prospect of taking it out..............

I mean, sure they can be taken out; but losses would be 'unacceptable'


ps. a program like WinMerge can help a lot.

[ late edit ] uhm i just noticed I put a bug in there: ZOMBIE_ARMOR has "drawingRoutine: 5" which causes a crash.

it should be "4"

[wsmithjr]

here's my Ruleset, as is.

uhm, Ethereals to start psi. personally I abort ethereal missions until I have psi. Recently i figured i'd be a hero and do a medium ethereal scout -- i did it, but then they pounded one of my bases. They also have a base set up in China and there's no prospect of taking it out..............

I mean, sure they can be taken out; but losses would be 'unacceptable'

Thanks.  Always interesting to see other ideas.  Gave me a few ideas of my own.

[Scrubwave]

Hi and sorry for necroing this thread but psi is something that's bugged me the most in OG X-com.
Basically, it's utterly imbalanced. At first when you go for sectoid terror mission and your dudes have their brains melted, later when you have access to psi and can freely drive around with a tank and mind control anything in your path, making many missions winnable without even one soldier leaving skyranger.
I have two suggestions for how to handle psi to make it less bs:
1) The user, be it human or alien, needs to actually see his target. No squad sight- prevents the player from being able to activate psi-easy mode and prevents aliens from similar moves.
2) An option to turn psi off completely. Pretty extreme, I know.

[Danny]

Psionics, unfair in the hands of the aliens and overpowered in the hands of the player... XD

Maybe add psionic specialities like the new Xcom?

One of them could have squad-sight Psionics at the cost of only being able to panic enemies... ^^

[yrizoud]

An other possibility for player's mind control : The game AI would play the controlled unit's turn. This would give much more varied situation than 'disarm the unit, look around, and walk to the firing squad'.

[Quixote]

I never found psionics fun at all. It's not fun being gunned down by your own soldiers, and it's not fun controlling the aliens either. Since it feels like an "I win" button.

I'd say it be toned down or maybe even both toned down and exclusive to the aliens..

[Danny]

I never found psionics fun at all. It's not fun being gunned down by your own soldiers, and it's not fun controlling the aliens either. Since it feels like an "I win" button.

I'd say it be toned down or maybe even both toned down and exclusive to the aliens..

Maybe don't allow mindcontrol to fire guns or throw grenades for the aliens and human Psionic troopers will rarely succeed mindcontrol thus would be better off just panicking the aliens... ^^

[Solarius Scorch]

An other possibility for player's mind control : The game AI would play the controlled unit's turn. This would give much more varied situation than 'disarm the unit, look around, and walk to the firing squad'.

It's a splendid idea. I love it already - it would still be fun to psionize aliens, but not as broken.

I never found psionics fun at all. It's not fun being gunned down by your own soldiers, and it's not fun controlling the aliens either. Since it feels like an "I win" button.

I'd say it be toned down or maybe even both toned down and exclusive to the aliens..

Excuse me, some people here actually enjoy that. I agree it would be more entertaining if less of an obvious tactics though.

[Quixote]

Excuse me, some people here actually enjoy that. I agree it would be more entertaining if less of an obvious tactics though.

Was just saying my opinion... if you like it, great for you

[LouisdeFuines]

So,

is PSI now working like in Vanilla or has it remained changed?