The Scarab?

[Dogbarian]

Having a hard time figuring out where the utility of this ship is (this discussion assumes you get your Codex ships early enough to be useful, ie, before you develop your own other aircraft).  I picked Red, so I have a choice between it, the Snake, and the Scorpion.  Given the following, I didn't even buy one yet, because I don't see it being useful.  The Scorpion is obviously the main transport, happens to be fast enough to keep up with the Runabout, and catch the slower Megapol/Bandit/civvy stuff (although vs Megapol and Bandits, it's probably better to use the Snake to avoid damage).  The Snake is a good multi-role ship, serving as light transport/intercepter, being durable enough with its shield to deal with most interceptions without taking (much) damage, although being slower, it can't catch some things.  I had exactly one Heavy weapon (the codex choice) until eventually unlocking the contact to buy the Ramjet, which has expensive ammo.  So the Scarab's two heavy weapon slots don't seem that great early, I've put my one heavy weapon on either the Scorpion or one of my Snakes as it is. It's slow, so it can't catch anything but slow civvy traffic, although I could see maybe using it to escort the Scorpion vs something with radar.  And the Snake does that better anyway (and can easily handle most of the small ship crews by itself anyway).  The Snake is even better as a pilot trainer too, since it uses 3 instead of 2.

Does it become more useful after I start unlocking STC modules and other upgrades (I think some of those fit in Heavy slots, so that could come into play then)?  The boosted power/damage from its special ability seems to imply it should be used as a heavy intercepter, but that seems a little insane until I get better weapons (and its lack of speed works against it there, too) and by then, I'll probably have better aircraft.  I don't even see a way to maybe "improve" it to the point of where I think it would be worth having, although maybe increasing the armor from 6 (the lowest weapon power of enemy craft looks like 15, I'm guessing they do the same 50 to 150% possible damage roll?  Or do they work differently?).

What am I missing here?

[Solarius Scorch]

The Scarab is a heavy interceptor. It is very sturdy for its class, and also it has an innate bonus to damage (regardless of weapon), which is also not to be scoffed at. Its main disadvantage is low speed, which limits its usefulness, but still I really like this one.

[Iazo]

Remember that red is not the only codex that exists. Try playing green without Scarab.

[Solarius Scorch]

Remember that red is not the only codex that exists. Try playing green without Scarab.

Yes, agreed. But still, when I play Red, the Scarab remains my main attack craft until much later. The Snake is good for sea ops, and the Scorpion for land assaults.

[Dogbarian]

Remember that red is not the only codex that exists. Try playing green without Scarab.

I realize that part - but the ability to intercept relies on speed. Gold has the Hawk, Green has the Worm, Red/Grey have the Snake. How do you use the Scarab effectively?  That’s assuming the Worm is effective, of course.

Or since I already have access to HK, Piranha, Shark, should I just move on and try it next playthrough?

[username]

Does it become more useful after I start unlocking STC modules and other upgrades (I think some of those fit in Heavy slots, so that could come into play then)?  The boosted power/damage from its special ability seems to imply it should be used as a heavy intercepter, but that seems a little insane until I get better weapons (and its lack of speed works against it there, too) and by then, I'll probably have better aircraft.  I don't even see a way to maybe "improve" it to the point of where I think it would be worth having, although maybe increasing the armor from 6 (the lowest weapon power of enemy craft looks like 15, I'm guessing they do the same 50 to 150% possible damage roll?  Or do they work differently?).

Based on my experiences with my Red Codex play, Scarab was of very limited use. It does great damage with the weapons it can carry, but its terrible speed (1900) limits it to intercepting only things slower than it is, none of which are actually armed in any real way. On rare occasions you might manage to bait an HK into you, since the only way you're getting into a fight with anything that can actually shoot at you is if you convince them to chase you, seeing as the speed on the Scarab is basically nonexistent. Unfortunately, none of the big targets will actually ever pursue you. No HK battleships or anything. While it has potentially amazing firepower, the problem is that none of it matters if you can't get to the battle. The only thing that can salvage the Scarab from the junkpile of near-uselessness would be somehow finding enough orbs to make an Ethyr-X, wihch would boost its speed to 5500, enough to actually intercept things. Anything less than the top-tier Ethyr drive would not be sufficient to actually catch anything.

As there is nothing close to a viable source of Orbs that I know of, good luck with that one. If you somehow manage to cobble one together, THEN maybe you can buy a Scarab. Otherwise it's a waste of money. The very niche purpose of baiting HKs, none of which are capital-grade threats anyway, does not really justify the cost and hangar bay.

The same problem plagues the "ultimate" fighter, the Dragon, which is useless junk for all the same reasons: It's too slow to actually fight anything that would need that level of firepower. The result is that for all your research, you get a heavily armed transport without aux capacity. Totally useless.

Remember that red is not the only codex that exists. Try playing green without Scarab.

Green doesn't change anything that makes the Scarab not useless, far as I know.

[legionof1]

I will point out that UFOs do not always tear around at maximum speed. Aside from base attackers, the flight routines are explicitly designed to allow opportunity to engage. Just because your slower doesn't mean you cant get an engagement. Granted faster is easier, but hey STC slot means you have pretty easy access to another 650 speed, assuming retculians show up.

[username]

I will point out that UFOs do not always tear around at maximum speed.

And since I have no means of making them not do this, this is still irrelevant. A useful plan only involves factors you can control. If you can't control it, it's not part of the plan.

Aside from base attackers, the flight routines are explicitly designed to allow opportunity to engage.

So the one thing you'd actually need to intercept is the thing you never can. Useless!

Granted faster is easier, but hey STC slot means you have pretty easy access to another 650 speed, assuming retculians show up.

Raising it by +650 speed doesn't enable you to intercept anything new, however. Going from 1900 to 2550 just lets you fail at intercepting Heavy Freighters, which are 2600 and thus you still fail. Everything else is still faster than that. There is absolutely no difference between a speed of 1 and a speed of N-1 when it comes to intercepting something of speed N.

The closest thing Red has to a usable codex ship is the Snake, which makes a passable upgrade to your Airbus, goes underwater, and the shield lets it get into fights with Raider Barques with impunity, but like everything else, is too slow to actually intercept anything. And the internal layout and spawn points are awful. But at least it's not the Scorpion. Scorpion is a deathtrap as you will die instantly on turn 1 before the enemy has a chance to even take its actual turn if you use it as a dropship and it's still too slow to be an interceptor, although sticking a fusion reactor on it will boost its speed to a usable level.

I used to think the Scarab was nice, but after a full Red playthrough, I came to realize it was actually almost useless and I just had an expensive white elephant I was using to shoot down civilians and HKs.

[Tamren]

Bit of a thread necro I know, but what do people think of the Scarab in 2024?

I'm at the start of my second year of a red jackass campaign and the Scarab seems decent compared to my other options like aircars. I put the ilya on it because it's the only heavy weapon I have and it absolutely slaps in combat paired with a 30mm cannon. The speed of the scarab is noticeably slower than average for aircars, even with the battery overcharger added, but for what it's worth I have yet to encounter anything that managed to run from it. I'm currently beset by swarms of ninja fighters/jetbikes and megapol cars and the Scarab can deal with them pretty well. Ninja craft are much faster but they come to me and then I just blast them to bits before they can turn around and flee. Megapol cars are slow enough for the Scarab to catch except for the Chaser which I have yet to see outside of a codex entry.

Overall it seems alright. Compared to the Scorpion it is a slower worse dropship, but much better in combat. My Scorpion is also armed but I don't use it to engage anything truly dangerous because it's a notorious hangar queen, a single engagement might put it out of action for three days and I can't use it as a dropship in the meantime. To catch anything super speedy I have one Piranha per continent and I recently sold my Blowfish to make room for a Snake, the snake is mostly for underwater missions but it is also combat capable which I have yet to experiment with.

[Solarius Scorch]

I'm also mostly a Red Jackass, and I rather appreciate the Scarab. It's slow, but when it can catch up to something, it delivers. Its main advantages are durability and the damage bonus. Not a solve-all tool, but what it's good at, it's really good at.

[RSSwizard]

The biggest question is what's the use of the Bomber necroplsne thingy when you cant even use it to obliterate mission sites or enemy hideouts. It has no speed, and its internal bay slot means nothing by the time you can stick cool things in it. Is it literally only meant to assault mobile fortresses early game?

I guess you can stick it in front of an H-K with an escort to guard it... heh... if you can even get it in that path in time. Not my type of tactic.

And that's ALL it can do... for taking up a Hangar somewhere.

============

I pretty much go Snake + Scorpion all the way and don't bother with the Scarab anymore, the main issue is no real good heavy weapons, id like a double barrel fifty millimeter or maybe a double thirty or deuce gauss or some other repackaged light weapons that shoot faster and have more ammo. Heavy slot should be at least 2 times as effective as a Light slot.

The Snake's shields blow the scarab out of the water, and I get a missile if I need it. I often even use Snake to lead into a fight with my Codex ship so it can take some hits first then go to standoff while Metallo raeps with dual gauss and maybe a quadcannon to chip enemy shields. Hardly ever need to do repairs.

The problem is heavy weapon slot is basically just 1.25-1.50x whatever a light weapon slot is or maybe it really only gives higher max end damage due to ammo. Because heavy slot accuracy sux, that's why. The heavy rockets are ok but you only get six of them. Upkeeping heavy rockets is such a pain because the chemicals take up huge storage space. The naval gun takes a long time to get. Its accuracy sux too.

I guess divebomb technology makes it worth it but its still the same performance just longer staying power, hardly ever run out of dv's in a battle unless they're heavy dv's.

Scarab long refuel rate is a problem too.
And I could care less about its dmg% bonus, I don't care about damage bonuses unless they're well over +50%.

Maybe if you dogpile with 4 Scarabs on a ship going at slow speed they can spam low accuracy damage. But id rather dogpile with 4 Snakes and cycle them out when their shields fade. And those have a heavy weapon too.

[Tamren]

The biggest question is what's the use of the Bomber necroplsne thingy when you cant even use it to obliterate mission sites or enemy hideouts. It has no speed, and its internal bay slot means nothing by the time you can stick cool things in it. Is it literally only meant to assault mobile fortresses early game?

Yeah it feels like there is "missing middle" for the early game where necroplane tech can make a difference. Buckaroos and the Spitfire are major upgrades over the little/angry bird in terms of straight combat. But they don't double as dropships and nothing you encounter in the early game actually needs more than a little bird. The double dive weapon slots on the buckaroo also don't see any use because DV weapons take a long time to unlock, are expensive, and again have no viable targets that actually need them because ranking up your boss will cause most enemy ground vehicles to stop spawning. In my current playthrough I went directly from little bird to aircars just because necro tech was such a low research priority.

The Scarab kind of has the same missing middle problem because it's tougher and stronger than a basic aircar but not faster. So it's actually a downgrade in some senses unless you are intercepting hostile aircraft that will engage the Scarab on sight even if it is slower than them. And even then the Snake appears to be superior simply because of the shield, it does not have to repair after a fight unless it bites off too much.

[John___Doe]

The scarab is still slow, and my experience is that the hardest part of shooting down most craft is catching it. Snake is critically faster and has less downtime against most targets. It may be a different story on Jack Sparrow, where the ninjas provide a steady supply of tough and slow craft to shoot.

[ontherun]

Yes, i think it should be at least a little more faster, right now is 1900 knots, otherwise it does not have sense because it is useless.

Only usage i can think of it is  against bandits craft (sandcrawler and so on) and ratmens roving bands