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Author Topic: Specialist Engineer and Scientist  (Read 1774 times)

Offline LobsterKing

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Specialist Engineer and Scientist
« on: February 02, 2021, 08:11:39 am »
Hey guys, can I request a feature where you can have items with label of scientist or engineer but assigned to specialist roles?  like for example, you have a research lab now remoulded into a prison/interrogation facility, but instead of scientists hired for it, you have torturer(or item torturer with scientist label) You can hire a torturer at the start of the campaign game but other specialist maybe later in the game? Instead of scientist or engineer available straight for hire at the start?

Having specialist engineer or scientist can expand into specialised facilities requires specialists to staff them and special quest to kidnap/hire them?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2021, 08:28:41 am by LobsterKing »

Offline LobsterKing

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Re: Specialist Engineer and Scientist
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2021, 02:08:10 pm »
Any feedback on this feature request?

Offline Finnik

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Re: Specialist Engineer and Scientist
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2021, 12:16:10 am »
As far as I can see - adding a new entity like a scientist is not that hard to do on the backend - it's just a number to a base and 2 methods to add and remove it, and also new handling for purchase, sell and transfer. Oh, and mod option to define price and hiring research gate (like recent commit). I even wanted to add some for my personal usage. There are problems, however:

1) How would it interact to the player? Current base info state is not really agile, and I don't think it can fit yet another bar
2) A new state to operate those staff? Where would you place the button for its menu? Not saying that this new state is 95% of work and your request does not define how to play with it at all.
3) A new mechanic related to it must be defined first

I am not OXCE developer, and I can answer for them at all. Just my point - such feature has to be very well-designed and then hardcoded. For the most designs it would not be agile and would fit right only to one idea, but it can't be agile. You either need to define a very agile mechanic, that many modders can use their way, like mana, soldier transformations and other such things, or it should be done in a separate fork.

Offline LobsterKing

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Re: Specialist Engineer and Scientist
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2021, 04:11:09 pm »
Finnik, from your feedback, I can only partially understood what you are trying to get across. What I had envisioned was much simpler than what you had proposed. To put it simply, I am looking a feature having Scientist and Engineer, rebrand under different names. Example.

A Scientist can be rebrand as
1) Prison Officer
2) Interrogator
3) geneticist
4) Drug Researcher.

I was planning to make a little mod for Xcomfiles having the Prison Cells needing Prison Officers to interrogate prisoners.
Geneticist for the Biolabs.  They are scientist type Items I guess. If they fall under geoscape items 

An Engineer can be rebrand as

1) Factory Workers.
2) Salvagers

and so on. Different type of engineers for a new Salvage yard or Advance Workshop. I don't know how complicated my request is and the lacking in feedback is disheartening.  Perhaps this feature request section is only for established modders. Anything less is ignored.

Offline Meridian

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Re: Specialist Engineer and Scientist
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2021, 05:22:44 pm »
Any feedback on this feature request?

Seriously?
You expect us to answer within 5 hours?
This is a hobby forum... not a 911 hotline!
We have day jobs, and personal lives.

... the lacking in feedback is disheartening.  Perhaps this feature request section is only for established modders. Anything less is ignored.

I try to provide feedback within 2 weeks for anything that even remotely looks like a question for developers.
Expecting feedback within a few hours is disheartening.

I don't know how complicated my request is...

1/ If all scientist types are equivalent, e.g. Prison officer can work in the Prison, in the Biolab and in every other science facility as well, then it is relatively easy (although still time-consuming).

2/ If each scientist type is different, e.g. Prison officer can work in the Prison, but cannot work in the Biolab, then it is very difficult (and even more time-consuming).

Comparable feature would be "configurable prison types", which I've done several years ago (you probably know it from XcomFiles), and which is causing pain to this day (I won't go into details, but it is my number one most hated feature that caused more bugs than anything else I ever did).
Or "configurable hangar types", which is still on the todolist... we have tried implementing it at least twice and failed (so far).

Offline Finnik

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Re: Specialist Engineer and Scientist
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2021, 06:14:06 pm »
Or "configurable hangar types", which is still on the todolist... we have tried implementing it at least twice and failed (so far).

One can be surprised when inventing feature and compare to effort - some can be done with just a few lines, and other that looks the same - would be a swamp. I also tried that hangar thing - all that cases when you need to change hangar space, oh. Some things just need to be reinvented to be expanded.

Offline LobsterKing

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Re: Specialist Engineer and Scientist
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2021, 02:46:08 am »
Seriously?
You expect us to answer within 5 hours?
This is a hobby forum... not a 911 hotline!
We have day jobs, and personal lives.
Sorry, most of the recent feature requests coming from established modders I had read here, are always getting feedback quickly. Some are completely ignored. I was assuming that mine would be joining the ignored list.

Quote
1/ If all scientist types are equivalent, e.g. Prison officer can work in the Prison, in the Biolab and in every other science facility as well, then it is relatively easy (although still time-consuming).

I understand the implementation of any feature request is time consuming, on the provider or developer's part. I heartily
praised you, if you can allow it at whenever times. Any easiest path in making it happen is what I seek. Like the sentence as quoted above.

Scientist types are equivalent, but can use this existing facility feature "provideBaseFunc" and with something to restrict or allow them to work in the facilities?

or it this would fall under
Quote
2/ If each scientist type is different, e.g. Prison officer can work in the Prison, but cannot work in the Biolab, then it is very difficult (and even more time-consuming).

Then heavens forbid, I retract my request.

Quote
Comparable feature would be "configurable prison types", which I've done several years ago (you probably know it from XcomFiles), and which is causing pain to this day (I won't go into details, but it is my number one most hated feature that caused more bugs than anything else I ever did).
Or "configurable hangar types", which is still on the todolist... we have tried implementing it at least twice and failed (so far).

Sorry, I haven't been around the forum that much time. The history is interesting to read.


Offline Meridian

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Re: Specialist Engineer and Scientist
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2021, 09:25:01 am »
I didn't quite understand your response, you answered yes on both (mutually exclusive) options.

I will ask more simply: can Prison officers work in a Biolab? Yes or No

Offline LobsterKing

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Re: Specialist Engineer and Scientist
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2021, 11:00:52 am »
This is a very good method of a question ask. To be direct, no.

I believe this will force me to retract of the feature I request. I only wish for it if it is easy to implement.

Thank for considering and replying to my inquiries.

Offline Dogbarian

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Re: Specialist Engineer and Scientist
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2021, 07:57:53 pm »
I could see this being useful if you could purchase/acquire either a "scientist", which can work in any research facility doing any task, or a cheaper person that can only work in a specific research facility type.  And maybe even a training option to teach the cheaper specialist to become a full blown scientist, which would then require more upkeep.  However, the way I read Meridian's response, this would be very difficult/impossible to implement.  :)

Offline Finnik

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Re: Specialist Engineer and Scientist
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2021, 10:33:40 am »
The thing is that now scientists are not handled as objects (like soldiers, for example), its just the property of the base. I mean, the base has name, facilities, many more other things stored in it and also has number of free scientists, that hang out there (not used in research, with is separate object). Its not like we can track separate scientist, we just have their total number. If you want to know more about objects in the game, just check your save file, it is more or less show how the game handles things.
I dont see anything impossible in making scientists another object, like soldiers. But there must be strong gamedesign behind that feature, and I think it falls under "why my suggestion rejected" article