Author Topic: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding  (Read 1576 times)

Offline Thermite

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[WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« on: April 14, 2020, 06:38:42 am »
 This is a submod for the X-Com Files. Since Giant rats aren't that easy to come by to some of us, I made this mod with a few recipes to let you breed your own. Maybe add Gilldogs and Bloodhounds too if Solarius ever comes to make them units. Any help is appreciated.
 Git repository

 The mod can be downloaded from the repo by clicking the green button "clone or download" and downloading the ZIP file. Note that the folder will have the hidden .git folder that is used by the git software for version control, which let's you update the mod without having to download everything again.

 The X-Com Files also has a Git Repo, if you are interested.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2020, 12:24:07 pm »
This is something I've actually wanted to do myself, but never had the time!

I've briefly reviewed your mod (just read through the rulesets) and it's OK in principle, though I think it's maybe too powerful. This allows you to make a rat army at practically no cost and in record time (not counting training). I would think about increasing the cost somehow. Perhaps a good idea would be a requirement of having a special building for breeding rats? (And other buildings in the future, if we expand it to other critters.)
Also, on the other hand I don't think breeding should require researching those other creatures, as this technology is fairly mundane, even if the rats are bigger. But instead, I'd add Rat Recruitment as a prerequisite, because why breed them if you don't intend to use them?

Overall I like the concept and after some polishing will be happy to include it with the main mod, if you allow.

Offline Thermite

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2020, 07:34:51 pm »
This is something I've actually wanted to do myself, but never had the time!

I've briefly reviewed your mod (just read through the rulesets) and it's OK in principle, though I think it's maybe too powerful. This allows you to make a rat army at practically no cost and in record time (not counting training). I would think about increasing the cost somehow. Perhaps a good idea would be a requirement of having a special building for breeding rats? (And other buildings in the future, if we expand it to other critters.)
Also, on the other hand I don't think breeding should require researching those other creatures, as this technology is fairly mundane, even if the rats are bigger. But instead, I'd add Rat Recruitment as a prerequisite, because why breed them if you don't intend to use them?

Overall I like the concept and after some polishing will be happy to include it with the main mod, if you allow.

 I wouldn't mind if it was added to the main mod.
 And I agree, maybe this is a little bit OP, specially since you can farm the critters for Energetic Blood Plasma (EBP). I did make the process last for about 10 days of work hours, though, so that might help on balance a little bit.

Offline vadracas

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2020, 09:28:42 pm »
I wouldn't mind if it was added to the main mod.
 And I agree, maybe this is a little bit OP, specially since you can farm the critters for Energetic Blood Plasma (EBP). I did make the process last for about 10 days of work hours, though, so that might help on balance a little bit.

10 days isn't much considering the number of engineers at your average base.

Offline Thermite

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2020, 01:14:33 am »
10 days isn't much considering the number of engineers at your average base.

How much would you recommend then?

Offline vadracas

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2020, 02:07:54 am »
Considering it's power, and being realistic, 1 month of time. I feel that this should be something you only use if you REALLY need more blood plasma or rats and not the go to choice for either.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2020, 02:33:59 pm »
But breeding rats isn't like making a plane. Throwing 100 engineers to work at it days and nights makes zero sense.
This is why I suggested a facility: this implies an initial investment, sacrificing some resources (including base space) and some monthly upkeep. Not sure if it's the best solution, but it's the best I have right now.

Offline vadracas

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2020, 02:53:08 pm »
I would have to agree with the idea of a facility for the reasons you pointed out but I don't think it's worth creating a facility for that one purpose, so other options would have to be added as well.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2020, 03:00:29 pm »
I would have to agree with the idea of a facility for the reasons you pointed out but I don't think it's worth creating a facility for that one purpose, so other options would have to be added as well.

Well, if that's the issue, I can do it myself :)

Offline vadracas

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2020, 03:19:14 pm »
Well, if that's the issue, I can do it myself :)

Sorry, I meant in-game creating a facility wouldn't be worth it just for giant rat breeding. I would just say, alright, I guess I'll just have to stick with however many rats I already have.

Offline Thermite

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2020, 11:46:55 pm »
Well, if that's the issue, I can do it myself :)

 Maybe add animal pen space to it and, I dunno, make some transformations, like werewolf, werecat and so on, or the production of such units only available if it is there?
 "Barn" would be a good theme. Make it so it is a lab space where you lab grow animals (In vitro or not).

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2020, 05:28:04 pm »
Sorry, I meant in-game creating a facility wouldn't be worth it just for giant rat breeding. I would just say, alright, I guess I'll just have to stick with however many rats I already have.

Well maybe, but as I said, I can't see a better way of doing it... We'd need something like delayed manufacture (where the item arrives long after it's been produced), and that's not possible, hence the building idea.

Of course we could have multiple buildings for various beasties, too. (Not sure if sensible... But cute)

Maybe add animal pen space to it and, I dunno, make some transformations, like werewolf, werecat and so on, or the production of such units only available if it is there?

Kinda too furry lol :D
(Piratez have them, though)

Offline Thermite

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2020, 12:11:48 am »
Well maybe, but as I said, I can't see a better way of doing it... We'd need something like delayed manufacture (where the item arrives long after it's been produced), and that's not possible, hence the building idea.

Of course we could have multiple buildings for various beasties, too. (Not sure if sensible... But cute)
I think a flat production time would do better, but that would require engine changes.
 And what do I mean, you ask. Well, basically it means that, no matter the amount of workers put into it, each recipe will require X amount of time to pass before it finishes. Any remaining work hours put into it will either be wasted or put into the next iteration of the project and such time will pass independently of the amount of workers put into it. But will only start ticking once the amount of work hours spent are greater than 0. Add some proportion maths into account and you can have a dynamic idle time cap for the project, meaning that enough work was done for the timer to start ticking, add a field that accepts either percentile (below or equal to 100%) or absolute values of work needed to start the timer and we have something somewhat decent for modders to use.

 If you are going to use the facility idea, though, make sure they require more than one STR_GIANT_RAT_TERRORIST to be made.

Kinda too furry lol :D
(Piratez have them, though)

X3
But I like my things furry.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2020, 12:37:14 pm »
I think a flat production time would do better, but that would require engine changes.
And what do I mean, you ask. Well, basically it means that, no matter the amount of workers put into it, each recipe will require X amount of time to pass before it finishes. Any remaining work hours put into it will either be wasted or put into the next iteration of the project and such time will pass independently of the amount of workers put into it. But will only start ticking once the amount of work hours spent are greater than 0. Add some proportion maths into account and you can have a dynamic idle time cap for the project, meaning that enough work was done for the timer to start ticking, add a field that accepts either percentile (below or equal to 100%) or absolute values of work needed to start the timer and we have something somewhat decent for modders to use.

I think this is over-engineered, I'd just make it so the end product goes into "Transfers" with a set number days to arrive. Just like for some transformations.
Nevertheless, a change in code would still be required.

If you are going to use the facility idea, though, make sure they require more than one STR_GIANT_RAT_TERRORIST to be made.

I thought the facility shouldn't need any creatures just to be built. But the actual breeeding would.
But your idea may actually be better. You need, say, 10 x STR_GIANT_RAT_TERRORIST to start the rat colony. After that, you don't even need any rats to make more, because it is assumed that you already have a growing rat swarm, so recruiting new rats becomes a matter of selecting some promising individuals and running them through basic orientation. And no new code required.

But I like my things furry.

OK XD
For now, let's focus on rats... This is all purely conceptual at this stage.


EDIT: Made the map. :) See attached.

EDIT 2: Basescape.


EDIT 3: It's in the main mod! Thank you for this fun idea, Thermite. Of course, you'll be credited.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 05:10:55 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Thermite

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Re: [WIP][somewhat finished][XCF submod] X-Com breeding
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2020, 07:01:52 pm »
I think this is over-engineered, I'd just make it so the end product goes into "Transfers" with a set number days to arrive. Just like for some transformations.
Nevertheless, a change in code would still be required.

I thought the facility shouldn't need any creatures just to be built. But the actual breeeding would.
But your idea may actually be better. You need, say, 10 x STR_GIANT_RAT_TERRORIST to start the rat colony. After that, you don't even need any rats to make more, because it is assumed that you already have a growing rat swarm, so recruiting new rats becomes a matter of selecting some promising individuals and running them through basic orientation. And no new code required.

OK XD
For now, let's focus on rats... This is all purely conceptual at this stage.


EDIT: Made the map. :) See attached.

EDIT 2: Basescape.


EDIT 3: It's in the main mod! Thank you for this fun idea, Thermite. Of course, you'll be credited.

X3 THANKS!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH