aliens

Author Topic: Scripts to make melee more interesting  (Read 2692 times)

Offline Bobit

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Scripts to make melee more interesting
« on: April 07, 2020, 07:04:30 am »
"Problem": Player units can bypass CQB by retreating 1 space then firing. All units retreat too easily from CQB. In general melee is more dynamic in chit/mini wargames due to its ability to suppress and disrupt. Melees are glass cannons, which is fine but limiting. (Melee is already awesome with energy+stun+bleed)

Solution 1: Stepping away from adjacent ____ enemies is not allowed.
____ could be CQB-capable, or TUs>50%, or nothing, etc it's not important.
Possible using scripts? All it seems to require is SelectMoveSoundUnit, getting original position, getting position of all enemies, and move prevention.
Problem: AI might try and fail to retreat infinitely.

Solution 2: AoE CQB
Possible using scripts? Probably not.

Solution 3: Melee causes debuffs which discourage retreating, such as TU drain.
Possible using scripts? Only if there's a way to make a miss cause debuffs, or melee is high-accuracy low-damage.
Problem: AI might still try to retreat with their tiny TUs.

Solution 4: Melee gives armor/resistances instead of CQB
Possible using scripts? Yes, as XCOMfiles shows you can have items give armor if they are in cerrtain slots.
Problem: Obviously players will swap to melee at end of turn. Oh yeah, and it's unrealistic.
Possible solution to problem: Make melee weapons big. Have armor adjustment only apply if they had the melee weapon equipped the entire turn using scripts.

Solution 5: 1 free melee attack per turn to buff hit-and-run.
Possible using scripts? Well it requires a melee attack trigger so maybe not.
Problem: AI might not use it.

Solution 6: No-scripts. Flashbangs, stealth, smoke, higher HP in general.
Problem: Limiting, generally doesn't hold in the lategame.

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8709
    • View Profile
Re: Scripts to make melee more interesting
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2020, 09:36:56 am »
Solution 2: AoE CQB

I vote for this one. Let's make it 20 tiles AoE, maybe 25.

Offline Bobit

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Re: Scripts to make melee more interesting
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2020, 10:50:29 am »
Cuz a 3-meter area of control is so much more broken than 1-meter?

Geez, just ban me already

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8709
    • View Profile
Re: Scripts to make melee more interesting
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2020, 11:56:06 am »
No, I agree with you.
It is completely broken. No joke.


The 25 tiles was a joke... but only to help illustrate how broken it is.

Offline vadracas

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
  • Just another player/modder combo.
    • View Profile
Re: Scripts to make melee more interesting
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2020, 12:57:19 pm »
My vote would have to go to one of the hardest to implement- an attack of opportunity(reactions but without comparing TU's or reactions scores) at anyone who attempts to leave a one tile range.

No, I agree with you.
It is completely broken. No joke.

A three tile aoe would also be broken though because very few melee weapons implemented in the mods can actually reach three tiles/meters.

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8709
    • View Profile
Re: Scripts to make melee more interesting
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2020, 01:10:37 pm »
A three tile aoe would also be broken though because very few melee weapons implemented in the mods can actually reach three tiles/meters.

I agree with you too.
No matter what angle I look at it (and believe me I tried!), it's always broken.

Unless CQC is made cosmetic (triggering in <5% of cases), it's a cheat... in my opinion.

Offline vadracas

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
  • Just another player/modder combo.
    • View Profile
Re: Scripts to make melee more interesting
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2020, 03:43:35 pm »
One thing I have done in my xpiratez playthrough(and my files playthrough) is giving CQC a Time unit cost, which means that if I want my units to be able to divert an enemy's shot, I have to have left them able to do it. This has made it seem quite balanced to me.

Offline Bobit

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Re: Scripts to make melee more interesting
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2020, 01:13:09 am »
It's a cheat because the AI can't properly use it, I agree. Actually that's a large part of what this post is here for, making CQB (or more generally melee disruption) not a player-only cheat. AoE was intended to prevent players from just retreating, to put AI and players on the same level.

Out of all these options it is definitely my least favorite, but man why can't you comment on the other stuff instead of cherrypicking the worst and mocking me? ):

Also want to clarify that this is in the help section because I'm only talking about scripts I might want to use in the distant future. Making engine modifications for any of these is and should be out of the question.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 02:12:42 am by Bobit »