General Feedback

[TheCurse]

Hi there,

hope this is the right place for this, otherwise just delete plz.

First of all, i´m out of words to describe the awesomeness of this mod!
Its great, and so insanely huge o_O
Almost 2 years ingame (been playing the last months) and there´s not even a hint on whats going to come...
Incredible mass of details and content, very well done! 

Don't wanna question your big masterplan, but here´s some feedback on some minor details:

-skipped/lost missions:
Since its very hard not to get a good monthly score, missions can safely just be ignored or if too hard aborted at first try.
I think this should be compensated by loosing a huge amount of score for skipping known/detected missions or just starting but aborting them.

-short strategic guide
like a rough guess when you can afford to keep a 2nd base (i still cannot, had to sell...) and maybe what to focus research early on first, since research is very very slow the first year or so.

-gym extension
don't know if it exists, but if not it should. 10 people is awfully few for a gym. And melee stats are just horribly low for new agents.

-ski/beach missions
i´ve found almost no weapons available for those, even now. Its demotivating to loose good people armed with crossbows and surfboards to enemies with proper equipment.
Nice for a setting change though. (and while concealed is mentioned in ufopedia, there´s no list on what to take there)

-savegame compatibility
since new version is just out, is there general savegame compatibility or does it have weird side effects?

-asylum mission background song
whats the name? its catchy ^^


hope you know how freaking great you are at creating all this 

[JustTheDude/CABSHEP]

1: No, it shouldn't, otherwise game would change into mind nubbing grind. X-Com is a small organisation looking for solution for basically 4 invasions, they are not space police to deal with everything.

2: You can afford second base fairly fast, keep it small so it won't take much maintenance. Find ways to earn cash, building workshops and ordering Durathread just for sell is a good idea.

3: You can check in UFOpedia which weapons can be used in those missions besides crossbows and surfboards. Throwing knives, 1x1 pistols, sporting rifles, all you need is to kill first guy, get his gun and you are good to go.

4: Judging by the changelog I can say it shouldn't, however I can't say for sure.

5: Frontier Psychiatrist

[krautbernd]

-skipped/lost missions:
Since its very hard not to get a good monthly score, missions can safely just be ignored or if too hard aborted at first try.
I think this should be compensated by loosing a huge amount of score for skipping known/detected missions or just starting but aborting them.

The whole point early in the game is getting enough income to get by and be able to built up your organisation. How are you going to do that if you're 'forced' to take on (and win) all the missions thrown at you? Ever had an early game reaper mission? Chupacabras? Zombie Infestation with rookies and not enough ammunition?

How exactely are you going to get enough money if you
a)lose those missions anyway because your agents die
b)get massive negative points because you didn't win the mission
c)have to replace all of the lost equipment and agents?

You talk about 'not knowing the masterplan', but if you'd bothered to read the ufopaedia articles you'd have noticed that being able to abort missions is by design. Don't be afraid to run if you can't handle a mission - your agents are more important.

That aside, you do get negative for killed civilians - you simply don't have that many missions early in the game involving them.

-short strategic guide
like a rough guess when you can afford to keep a 2nd base (i still cannot, had to sell...) and maybe what to focus research early on first, since research is very very slow the first year or so.

I'm not a fan of that, because it tends to lock people into certain progression patterns without understanding the underlaying mechanics. As far as i'm concerned the first playthrough should be a massive trial&error-fest. You're not really supposed to win the game the first time around (at least i didn't).

Additionally you have all the 'General strategy'-topics after each promotion telling you what your next goal should be. How you get there is up to you. Also, when you 'should' be able to afford a second base is tied to your game progression and the mission you get. If you manage to successfully assault one (or even multiple) of the early game UFOs (stabbing sectoids works surprisingly well, just pray you have enough cover) you're pretty much set to built a new base ASAP, maybe even another HQ for added research capacity. If you don't progressions is slower from the get go.

-gym extension
don't know if it exists, but if not it should. 10 people is awfully few for a gym. And melee stats are just horribly low for new agents.

Agreed, which is why i raised the capacity to 15 in my game. An upgraded gym (and psi-lab, and hospital...) would be a nice addition, seeing how we can replace/built over existing base facilities.

-ski/beach missions
i´ve found almost no weapons available for those, even now. Its demotivating to loose good people armed with crossbows and surfboards to enemies with proper equipment.
Nice for a setting change though. (and while concealed is mentioned in ufopedia, there´s no list on what to take there)

As has already been mentioned there are equipment filters in the craft equipment screen and the buy screen. You're encouraged to use them.

-savegame compatibility
since new version is just out, is there general savegame compatibility or does it have weird side effects?

They are usually compatible unless mentioned otherwise, though you should generally avoid upgrading during tactical games, since that can mess with your units or even crash the game. You're probably missing out on some some stuff that only appears early in the game if you've already progressed further.

[TheCurse]

you make some convincing points.

on the skipped/lost missions:
the idea was not to be forced to take every mission, but at least have some consequences. not like 1000 score loss for a skipped mission, but maybe at least 100.
So you could choose between taking it on or just paying a price, instead of nothing.
Even if you´re not supposed to do all missions, a best effort approach doesn't hurt imo.
i try to do all (except most beach/ski missions), but its always weird when all vehicles are busy and i have to skip, it doesn't matter anyway...

i had reapers/chupacabras/zombie masses the first few months, never much of a problem though.
trying to hold distance, ammo is cheap and rookies are not 
(and always had enough packed. they may not carry much, but the van is big...)
Chupas are annoying, but not scary annoying. Then again, i´m not playing iron man, if it takes 5 tries so be it...


2nd base:
my mistake may have been starting way too huge.
(though i´m yet only +100k over maintenance with a full first base)
i´ll keep in mind the thread manufacturing, thx. 

ski/beach missions:
i found no clue on Ufopedia what weapons are allowed there, only the concealable flag is mentioned, which doesn't cover it.

strategic guide:
i see your points and completely agree.


thx for song title 

[krautbernd]

on the skipped/lost missions:
the idea was not to be forced to take every mission, but at least have some consequences. not like 1000 score loss for a skipped mission, but maybe at least 100.
So you could choose between taking it on or just paying a price, instead of nothing.
Even if you´re not supposed to do all missions, a best effort approach doesn't hurt imo.
i try to do all (except most beach/ski missions), but its always weird when all vehicles are busy and i have to skip, it doesn't matter anyway...

It would still defeat the point of being able/urged to skip missions, and i think i'd rather play missions i like instead of being 'forced' to take on every mission i get just to not lose points. Missions are somewhat random, and i'd rather skip annoying ones (like chupacapras or zombie invasions) than to force myself to play them. I think the incentive should be getting points instead of not losing them.

Then again, i´m not playing iron man, if it takes 5 tries so be it...

Yeah, but save scumming can get you through pretty much every mission. I don't think that should be the benchmark for mission design/points allocation.

ski/beach missions:
i found no clue on Ufopedia what weapons are allowed there, only the concealable flag is mentioned, which doesn't cover it.

Again, use the filters, they are there for a reason and perfectly cover the issue. I agree that they probably should be mentioned in the ufopaedia section (i also missed them the first time i played), but i'd hate to see them on the mission screen - you don't need to be reminded of how the equip/buy screen works on every deployment.

[TheCurse]

Yeah, but save scumming can get you through pretty much every mission. I don't think that should be the benchmark for mission design/points allocation.

i wish... sometimes you just land in the middle of a cult base and just the reaction fire kills 3 of your 5 guys.
i abort those... (if they actually kill them each time on several tries)

the fixed seed option in openxcom is very cool though, instead of scumming til you hit some 10% shots (blatant cheating) you can now explore some options, like "what if i kill that guy first..."
kinda like markov chains or some kind of chess moves. perfect for tryhards 
(i try to avoid defeat if possible. often its not. a lot of times i just run out of time. can't play this all night...)

[Solarius Scorch]

What I can do is make your monthly income dependent on the score, just like it works in Piratez.
I haven't done it because it felt weird for an international agency to have a funding model more reminiscent of a garage band, but if it's acceptable in nuCom...

Also, what exactly should be added to the Pedia regarding the item categories?

[krautbernd]

What I can do is make your monthly income dependent on the score, just like it works in Piratez.
I haven't done it because it felt weird for an international agency to have a funding model more reminiscent of a garage band, but if it's acceptable in nuCom...

Yeah no, please don't 

Also, what exactly should be added to the Pedia regarding the item categories?

I'm not sure anything *needs* to be added, since expanded item categories aren't unique to XCF - they are introduced by OXCE. But as some players might not familiar with them *at all*, maybe add an article concerning infiltration missions and how you can figure out what items you're allowed to bring.

I don't know something along the lines of:

Your agents might find themselves in situations where subtlety is more important than firepower. Certain missions might have you infiltrating high-security compounds or civilian areas, which means you have to blend in in order to get close to your target. In order to see what items are allowed on such missions, use the filter option in the craft loadout section or the buy screen.

Might have to be worded differently, but i guess that would do.

Provided people who complain about this actually read the ufopaedia articles to begin with

[TheCurse]

wait so currently income is not tied to score at all?
thats kinda weird imo. for what is score then?

for the UfoPedia I´d go with a simple ski/beach/work equiment (or item), like the "concealable" now.
just felt strange that concealable is indicated, even though you need it a lot less.

that general article might do too of course, but there are so many advisory articles already, its hard to keep them in mind all the time.
(not that there´s too many articles, it gives a lot for the setting of the game that its not just item descriptions but many stories etc too)

also, for the sake of it, started ironman game. holy **** its hard o_O
totally understand now how money runs tight then.
haven't even been able to do an outpost mission in half a year. and lost the durathread factory mission.
probably time to start from new...

[krautbernd]

wait so currently income is not tied to score at all?
thats kinda weird imo. for what is score then?

Whilke i haven't actually played pirates, i'd wager the way it works there is that your monthly score ties directly to your income - you don't 'stack' good scores / countries don't take into account your prior performance. I don't think that would work with XCF, and I don't think it would fit the lore either.

for the UfoPedia I´d go with a simple ski/beach/work equiment (or item), like the "concealable" now.
just felt strange that concealable is indicated, even though you need it a lot less.

That would clutter up the ufopaedia entries, besides you always view all the categories for a given item by pressing the info button. Also, concealable is universal for many different mission types - beach&work are not.

AGAIN, USE THE DAMN FILTERS! THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE THERE FOR!

that general article might do too of course, but there are so many advisory articles already, its hard to keep them in mind all the time.
(not that there´s too many articles, it gives a lot for the setting of the game that its not just item descriptions but many stories etc too)

Why would you need to keep any of that information 'in mind'? All you have to know - ALL YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO KNOW REGARDING THOSE MISSIONS - is that there are filters on multiple in-game screens that tell you exactely which of your items are allowed on those misions. For crying out loud, it's not rocket science. It's not even like your craft inventory is limited. Just pack the stuff on your favourit agent delivery craft and be done with it.

[Solarius Scorch]

Your agents might find themselves in situations where subtlety is more important than firepower. Certain missions might have you infiltrating high-security compounds or civilian areas, which means you have to blend in in order to get close to your target. In order to see what items are allowed on such missions, use the filter option in the craft loadout section or the buy screen.

OK, thanks. I'll see what I can do.

Or maybe a reword of the "Concealable Items" article would do.

[krautbernd]

OK, thanks. I'll see what I can do.

Or maybe a reword of the "Concealable Items" article would do.

IMHO it would be enough to mention that you can filter items in the buy/equip screen somewhere in the ufopaedia. Again, i think mentioning it on every mission deploy screen is overkill - in that case you might as well do away with any of the uofpaedia info pages, as people are apparently too lazy or not interested in reading them. I mean, come on, why even bother playing then?

[Solarius Scorch]

Would this be okay?

[krautbernd]

Yeha, i think that would cover it, provided of course that people actually read the article 

[Solarius Scorch]

Cool, good enough for me.