Author Topic: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers  (Read 3369 times)

Offline Ethereal

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[Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« on: August 08, 2018, 11:53:05 am »
I suggest that the soldiers make bonuses to clad armor. To the most armor, resistance, visibility, camouflage, in General to any parameter. And with a plus sign and a minus sign. I wish the types of soldiers had more differences.

Looks like this mess has about as:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_SOLDIER_SNIPER
    frontArmorBonus: -10
    frontArmorBonus: -10
    frontArmorBonus: -10
    frontArmorBonus: -10
    visibilityAtDayBonus: 2
    visibilityAtDarkBonus: 2
    camouflageAtDayBonus: 3 # Add to armor camouflage, if camouflageAtDay: 5 = camouflageAtDay: 2
    camouflageAtDarkBonus: 3 # Add to armor camouflage, if camouflageAtDay: -5 = camouflageAtDay: -8

  - type: STR_SOLDIER_HEAVY
    frontArmorBonus: 10
    frontArmorBonus: 10
    frontArmorBonus: 10
    frontArmorBonus: 10
    damageModifierBonus:
      - 1: 0.1  #none. 
      - 2: 0.1  #AP. It was in the armor resistance tu AP 1.0,  Become 0.9. And so on...
      - 3: 0.1  #FLAMES.
      - 4: 0.1  #HE.
      - 5: 0.1  #LASER.
      - 6: 0.1  #PLASMA.
      - 7: 0.1  #STUN.
      - 8: 0.1  #MELEE.
      - 9: 0.1  #ACID.
      - 10: 0.1  #SMOKE.
      - 11: 0.1  #GAUSS.
      - 12: 0.1  #SONIC.
    visibilityAtDayBonus: -2
    visibilityAtDarkBonus: -2
    camouflageAtDayBonus: -3 # Add to armor camouflage, if camouflageAtDay: 5 = camouflageAtDay: 8
    camouflageAtDarkBonus: -3 # Add to armor camouflage, if camouflageAtDay: -5 = camouflageAtDay: -2

  - type: STR_SOLDIER_MIND
    damageModifierBonus:
      - 1: -0.1  #none. 
      - 2: -0.1  #AP. It was in the armor resistance tu AP 1.0,  Become 1.1. And so on...
      - 3: -0.1  #FLAMES.
      - 4: -0.1  #HE.
      - 5: -0.1  #LASER.
      - 6: -0.1  #PLASMA.
      - 7: -0.1  #STUN.
      - 8: -0.1  #MELEE.
      - 9: -0.1  #ACID.
      - 10: -0.1  #SMOKE.
      - 11: -0.1  #GAUSS.
      - 12: -0.1  #SONIC.
    psiVisionBonus: 6
    psiDefenceBonus:
      psiStrength: 0.5 # Been psiStrength: 1.0, Become psiStrength: 1.5.
    meleeDodgeBonus:
      melee: -0.1 # Been melee: 0.5, Become melee: 0.4.

  - type: STR_SOLDIER_MELEE
    meleeDodgeBonus:
      melee: 0.1 # Been melee: 0.5, Become melee: 0.6.
    camouflageAtDayBonus: 3 # Add to armor camouflage, if camouflageAtDay: 5 = camouflageAtDay: 2
    camouflageAtDarkBonus: 3 # Add to armor camouflage, if camouflageAtDay: -5 = camouflageAtDay: -8
    psiDefenceBonus:
      psiStrength: -0.5 # Been psiStrength: 1.0, Become psiStrength: 0.5.
    psiVisionBonus: -6

If not, the parameter with the bonus value is added. If there was a parameter, but the penalty exceeds it-the parameter is canceled.

If anyone has an interest to implement it?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 11:57:30 am by Ethereal »

Offline Meridian

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2018, 11:57:07 am »
No.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2018, 12:50:22 pm »
Different soldier types can have different armours.

Offline Ethereal

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2018, 01:54:58 pm »
Different soldier types can have different armours.

Can. But then either the entire branch of the armor to remove or a huge number of armor options for different classes of soldiers to add. The first - complete insanity, the second-will fill the game, in fact, clones of the same armor, which invariably creates confusion.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2018, 02:14:39 pm »
Can. But then either the entire branch of the armor to remove or a huge number of armor options for different classes of soldiers to add. The first - complete insanity, the second-will fill the game, in fact, clones of the same armor, which invariably creates confusion.

Yes. And?

If this sort of things turn you off, then you are not a Jedi yet! ;)

Offline Ethereal

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2018, 02:51:33 pm »
Yes. And?

If this sort of things turn you off, then you are not a Jedi yet! ;)

No, I'm not a Jedi. And even though I don't know what it is, I'm much cooler! I'm Noob! I'm a noob, not knowing how to work with images, because I find it difficult to recruit the necessary number of images armor.

Offline Meridian

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 03:07:45 pm »
In OpenXcom armor affects units, not units affect armor... I am not going to change everything just so you save a few lines of ruleset.

First of all, soldier types were not meant to create soldier classes (e.g. sniper, heavy, medic).
They were meant to create different races (e.g. human, hybrid, android, ...).

Soldier classes can already be easily done using armors:
 - human soldier + sniper armor = sniper class
 - human soldier + heavy armor = heavy class


Soldier types can share armors across types, but the idea was that mostly they won't... e.g. humans get their own armors, hybrids theirs, androids theirs, etc.
In worst case, you can create copies of armors, like Solarius said... but before you do that, stop and think why do you need soldier types in the first place.
Because if you want to create soldier classes using soldier types, you're on the wrong track...
Hint: we don't have ANY class abilities, class perks, class weapons or anything class-related at all in OpenXcom.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 04:10:45 pm »
No, I'm not a Jedi. And even though I don't know what it is, I'm much cooler! I'm Noob! I'm a noob, not knowing how to work with images, because I find it difficult to recruit the necessary number of images armor.

I never meant to say that you were a noob; I only meant that yes, what you described is indeed maddening but yes, I have actually done that. So have several other modders. This is how modding X-Com works.
Meridian has summarized it so well that I don't really have anything to add. Maybe just one thing: I don't like classes in this type of game, they don't make much sense beyond equipment. (I would however enjoy more/custom stats, if we were to go in that direction - like mechanical, medical, etc.).

Offline Ethereal

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2018, 04:39:59 pm »
In worst case, you can create copies of armors, like Solarius said... but before you do that, stop and think why do you need soldier types in the first place.
Because if you want to create soldier classes using soldier types, you're on the wrong track...
Hint: we don't have ANY class abilities, class perks, class weapons or anything class-related at all in OpenXcom.

Meridian has summarized it so well that I don't really have anything to add. Maybe just one thing: I don't like classes in this type of game, they don't make much sense beyond equipment. (I would however enjoy more/custom stats, if we were to go in that direction - like mechanical, medical, etc.).

I won't argue with you, I'll just say it's too late. I have already divided the soldiers into classes, using the characteristics of soldiers, and the accessibility of armor, and bonuses for damage to weapons from skills. It would be possible to prescribe the accessibility of weapons for different types of soldiers, as in the armor, I would do it, but this function is also not. One thing remains: to load the mod with a dozen (or even two dozen) types of highly specialized armor. The alternative is too terrible to be considered.

In any case, thank you, that though not ignored the offer and made it clear that hope and wait for manna from heaven is not necessary. I, from now on, will be guided within the existing options. Thanks.

I never meant to say that you were a noob; I only meant that yes, what you described is indeed maddening but yes, I have actually done that.

Just kidding. Besides, I don't really know what a Jedi is. I'm a noob, a fact. Not having knowledge in programming and not being able to work with images and video, to climb in modding can only noob. So I'm just a noob. :D

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2018, 02:09:47 pm »
You can copy the attributes of an existing armor, change the name, and adjust the attributes slightly. That's the easy way to make more armor variations.

Offline Ethereal

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2018, 02:34:56 pm »
You can copy the attributes of an existing armor, change the name, and adjust the attributes slightly. That's the easy way to make more armor variations.

Can create variants of the same armor for each class of soldiers, but I'm even afraid to think what a mess it will be. The soldier doesn't say what class he is.

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2018, 09:35:54 pm »
The soldier doesn't say what class he is.

Then how will you know what armor bonus or penalty they are supposed to have? How would someone playing your mod be aware that they shouldn't let snipers get shot? They might lose soldiers due to misinterpreting the power suit's armor values.

You could affect their sturdiness by changing their health attribute. It's not the same, but it's similar. It also scales better with different armor suits. Consider the following:

Class 1: +20 armor
Class 2: no armor change
Class 3: -20 armor

Suit of armor 1: 20 armor
Suit of armor 2: 40 armor

Incoming shot damage: 75
Soldier health: 100

Class 1, Armor 1: receives 35 damage, dies in 3 hits
Class 1, Armor 2: receives 15 damage, dies in 7 hits <--
Class 2, Armor 1: receives 55 damage, dies in 2 hits
Class 2, Armor 2: receives 35 damage, dies in 3 hits
Class 3, Armor 1: receives 75 damage, dies in 2 hits
Class 3, Armor 2: receives 55 damage, dies in 2 hits

Incongruencies like this happen a lot when you change armor values. An armor change can make the difference between being vulnerable or invulnerable. But giving a soldier 50% more health always makes them able to survive 50% more damage.

Offline Ethereal

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2018, 09:58:14 pm »
Only partially understood, but here are my settings.

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_SOLDIER_SNIPER
    statCaps:
      tu: 180
      stamina: 140
      health: 60
      bravery: 80
      reactions: 200
      firing: 400
      throwing: 180
      melee: 180
      strength: 60
      psiStrength: 160
      psiSkill: 100

  - type: STR_SOLDIER_HEAVY
    statCaps:
      tu: 150
      stamina: 200
      health: 340
      bravery: 110
      reactions: 100
      firing: 210
      throwing: 80
      melee: 210
      strength: 200
      psiStrength: 80
      psiSkill: 50

If that is the case, it has already been done.

Offline Meridian

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2018, 11:48:30 pm »
So what's the point of firing accuracy 400?

I hope you are aware that maximum accuracy is 110... above that, there is no difference.
Especially on snipers, who use accurate weapons.

Offline Ethereal

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Re: [Rejected] [Suggestion] The bonus armor from the soldiers
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2018, 11:07:24 am »
So what's the point of firing accuracy 400?

I hope you are aware that maximum accuracy is 110... above that, there is no difference.
Especially on snipers, who use accurate weapons.

Yes, but with" battleUFOExtenderAccuracy: true " accuracy decreases with distance. I have the lowest "dropoff" is 4, and sometimes more. Not to mention that all weapons have a damage bonus on the characteristics. Usually from 0.1 to 0.2, from" firing" in the usual weapons. Including alien weapons. ;D
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 11:09:40 am by Ethereal »