Author Topic: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!  (Read 24256 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2017, 12:49:38 pm »
White Shambler = Yeti

Those werewolves and yeti's should be easily been dealt with using flying armors since melee can't slash upwards.

Yep, we really need that jumping mechanics. :)

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2017, 12:58:28 pm »
Those melee goons could get a secondary attack that costs more stamina but has a range of 2 maybe?

In general this mechanic mostly benefits the A.I. and while this adds to an even more challenging game I wonder how far can those creatures *leap* upwards with(out) moving thier unit.
It would look rather odd to have a floating werewolf and yeti.

I accept every new challenge tho^^

Offline Ragshak

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2017, 01:18:34 pm »
For white shamblers - set them on fire (fire arrow) and whipe them with whips. Beacause of fire and whip's special they will loose morale in one turn and will start to panic. Easiest mission ever.

As mentioned by others, Handle is the king :) One more mystery what Gals are doing with that wooden stick after the mission :P

Edit: I don't know if anything was changed for ShadowBat in last few version. But I do  see that some players here likes that craft. Can someone elaborate about ShadowBat?
I played before those missions with tokens came in and I found Jellyfish craft to be outstanding. Good for Hover armors usage. Nice in-build beam with auto targeting and good damage for nasty opponents.

Would really like to try new versions but have no much time for gaming.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 01:23:17 pm by Ragshak »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2017, 04:19:03 pm »
Those melee goons could get a secondary attack that costs more stamina but has a range of 2 maybe?

Sadly no, because of how AI works. It doesn't really support limited range weapons. If you give them such a weapon, they will try to snipe you from the moment they see you, got interrupted by the range check, and freeze in place and won't ever move unless they lose sight of you, or you generously wander into 2-tile range to allow them use this attack.

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2017, 06:12:16 pm »
With how violent werewolves are and how sneaky they can kill your gals maybe this software limitation shall remain as it is.
Werewolf missions are *scorching hot* 100% of a time so at least we're limited to skimpy armors or 24/7 canteen refreshments.

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2017, 08:37:50 pm »
With how violent werewolves are and how sneaky they can kill your gals maybe this software limitation shall remain as it is.
Werewolf missions are *scorching hot* 100% of a time so at least we're limited to skimpy armors or 24/7 canteen refreshments.

Launching and Jumping movements/attacks I think would be a welcome addition to the game. That sound effect the zombies used to have for aggro would do nicely for the "jump" sfx, including the vanilla melee visual effect to be left behind to indicate the critter jumped (imagine... jumping chrysallids... pounce baby pounce).

However in any case, Smartrifles do a real number on werewolves, along with an arcing launcher like a GL or assault cannon. I often just skip these missions until then because all you get out of it is a castaway (if there were more... things on that altar it would be worth the risk). Although a shotgun is good up close, being repeatedly hit reliably for so much 40 range damage takes them down, dead or bleeding.

My werewolf missions are usually over in 3-4 rounds depending on how far away the altar is. The wolves generally stick around the altar at least the last few I went on.

Offline Kulverstukass

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2017, 08:39:47 pm »
I haven't figured out how to kill the sectopods yet. I dropped two Baby Nukes on one and it kept going
One EMP "grenade" - one sectopod.
...or tank, or disk, or hovertank (i do believe, as i haven't messed w/mercs after i've got EMP grens)
My first sectopod received plasma rocket from that big black launcher, missed it's reaction fire and got downed by mere AC-tank shot into side.
It's "bane of warmachines" the item. Except dinos, but they're weak enough for common guns and simpler tools anyway, like "one black powder bomb - one reaper", if not bit unlucky.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 08:48:02 pm by Kulverstukass »

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2017, 09:01:18 pm »
I don't really understand the reluctance to go on Werewolf missions, unless its just the Hot environment and inappropriate armor.  Maybe my playstyle of sticking to environmentally neutral outfits is influencing me.  I usually just keep one Painkiller on everyone, and if need be grab an O2 tank and share it around.  Other than that, I've Never been even really threatened on a Werewolf mission and the Castaway gal is SO worthit!  These are the best soldiers in the game and the sooner you get them the sooner they start training.  (I think I saw that you can even get Power Armor Parts drops on some of these missions! #WorthitX2).  As far as tactics: keeping the gals together so they can't be rushed.  Let fire and Shotguns do the talking or give everyone pistols for reaction training.  Also: any Flying armor makes these missions a breeze!

Shadowbat:  9 troopers. All troops start one level above ground or higher. 3 in each wing with a ladder to get up on the wing itself and shoot down.  The other 3 gals start in the cockpit up top, and have to move down.  I like scouts, melee, and shoot and move folks up here, with maybe support like Wench or Nurse.  These will move down one level and scout the ground tile (doors have been removed so there are just stairs now) then scoot back up the stairs, to deploy in further rounds.  The gals in the wings pop up to scout, and usually after the first turn my sniper/machinegunner gets on a wing and first burst or reaction fires.  I get a gal with grenade launcher/assault cannon (arcing fire) up here to.  I use these weapons to also train firing acc.  I usually have archers and grenadiers in the wings too, and in a hot LZ, its surprising how angles of attack you can get firing out of the hatches without ever exposing yourself (ala the original Bonaventura's hatch).  A word about light:  The Shadowbat lights up a huge radius around the craft and leaves a pool of darkness under it and on the wings.  I'm not sure how darkness tiles work on Z levels above the ground, but I have had my gunners shot at that were in the shadows on the wings.  I like to use a stealthy lokknar to scout the ground, and if necessary get out past the light pool.  Then my other assaulters can follow once the way is clear.  The other alternative is to just go with the theme and continue to light up the rest of the battlefield.  Toss maglights with strong gals and electroflares with weaker ones, or if nothing else use fire to light up the night.  These pools of light (esp near enemy craft) usually give great opportunities for reaction firing.  Overall, I'd say the Shadowbat is one of the coolest additions to the game since CQC.  (No offense to the Jellyfish, I just haven't had the chance to try it.).  I don't regret upgrading my Hawk for it in the slightest.

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2017, 09:13:38 pm »
One EMP "grenade" - one sectopod.
...or tank, or disk, or hovertank (i do believe, as i haven't messed w/mercs after i've got EMP grens)
My first sectopod received plasma rocket from that big black launcher, missed it's reaction fire and got downed by mere AC-tank shot into side.
It's "bane of warmachines" the item. Except dinos, but they're weak enough for common guns and simpler tools anyway, like "one black powder bomb - one reaper", if not bit unlucky.

EMP grenades are new and I haven't got them yet. Also in order to get the lookup on a Sectopod I think you'd have to kill one first and research it.

Hate to add a spoiler (I cheated and looked at the armor stats in the rules file) but for most damage types including piercing the sectopods either take 0% or 10-20% damage, plus have that 100ish armor. You'd literally have to hit it with that red Wang nuke to take it out (and only on a direct hit).

So I mean you probably could burn it to death after about 5 turns of constant burning, it doesn't get a resistance against fire (however I couldn't keep it burning that long... I ran out of WP Mortars). I heard from some other player that fire could kill it just like fire kills cyberdiscs, so I brought something that did fire damage, just didn't bring enough of it I guess.

Someone else said that the Force Blade will tear them apart too. Dont have that yet in this playthrough though.

(...has anyone figured out a way to knock out cyberdiscs without them blowing up? or are they just supposed to explode now and you can get all the research from their wrecked version)


I don't really understand the reluctance to go on Werewolf missions, unless its just the Hot environment and inappropriate armor.  Maybe my playstyle of sticking to environmentally neutral outfits is influencing me.

A word about light:  The Shadowbat lights up a huge radius around the craft and leaves a pool of darkness under it and on the wings.

What exactly is the Shadowbat again?
Im still using my Bonaventura and im probably not going to switch until I get the thunderhorse (or better).

My aversion to the werewolf missions is because of practically being weigh-laid by 5 sharkmen or chryssalids, has nothing to do with the environmental heat (even if I hadn't turned it off in my mod). Flying armor makes it more or less "safe" but I pretty much just use the flying to find where they are and start pincushioning or bombarding them from across map.

They dont seem to move around much until you get close enough for the AI to think that they can reach you and attack within the next round.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 09:17:25 pm by RSSwizard »

Offline FiendishDrWu

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2017, 09:19:23 pm »
Edit: I don't know if anything was changed for ShadowBat in last few version. But I do  see that some players here likes that craft. Can someone elaborate about ShadowBat?
I played before those missions with tokens came in and I found Jellyfish craft to be outstanding. Good for Hover armors usage. Nice in-build beam with auto targeting and good damage for nasty opponents.

Would really like to try new versions but have no much time for gaming.

I had to choose between the Snake, Jellyfish, and Shadowbat.  The Shadowbat has the biggest crew complement, which was really what I needed at the time - before that I was using the initial airbus.  The Jellyfish's beam sounds cool, but the description makes it sound like a Gal (which at the time, didn't have great stats) needs to be permanently assigned to the craft, which didn't strike me as a great deal.  Now, in-game, I have a good number of high-skilled Gals, so sacrificing one to the Jellyfish might make more sense.

The Shadowbat's ability to let you deploy quickly to high ground is it's greatest strength and weakness.  It makes beasthunting/zombie/werewolf missions an absolute snap, as well as the more routine (crackhouse, hitman, etc.) trophy missions, since you can bring a lot of firepower to bear in almost any direction very quickly. 

It's also a weakness - I just tried the Siberia Base mission and got absolutely housed.  There's very little cover up on the Shadowbat's wings, which means if you're facing large numbers of well-armed, straight-shooting foes, your Gals get cut down VERY quickly!

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2017, 09:22:23 pm »
Siberia Base with 9 hands and shadowbat. Whelp you really asked for a big challenge there :D

Offline FiendishDrWu

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2017, 09:27:01 pm »
Siberia Base with 9 hands and shadowbat. Whelp you really asked for a big challenge there :D

Hey, I'm on my first playthrough and had no idea what to expect.  I saved before I left for the mission, though - I'm going to try again with 13 Gals (and even more explosives) in the Fortuna.

Edit:  And they still owned my punk ass in 3 rounds.   :-[
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 09:58:17 pm by FiendishDrWu »

Offline Kulverstukass

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2017, 10:06:03 pm »
(...has anyone figured out a way to knock out cyberdiscs without them blowing up? or are they just supposed to explode now and you can get all the research from their wrecked version)
E
M
P

Really. I've struggled to get disks for a while too, and then - eureka, it turns them into jellyfish laying at ground.

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2017, 11:31:42 pm »
Siberia Base with 9 hands and shadowbat. Whelp you really asked for a big challenge there :D

Heck even on alien base missions I only use like 8 hands. Personally im just waiting for getting a tank or two of my own before I go hit siberia. Ive taken alien bases with 6 hands. The only problems I usually have in the siberia raid are:
* The Trenches on the perimeter
* The Tanks (requires a fast getaway to the downstairs portion, and someone being a spotter to find the tanks)
* The average dudes downstairs with all the laser rifles (and treating hands when they get shot, and certainly get wounded by it).

I manage these issues, but that is what makes it hard.

The supersoldiers are definitely dangerous but they're slow, and can be taken out with melee (in that playthrough I did have the force blade to kill them though). Its just a matter of maneuvering, and they allow the other humanists with the nuclear lasers to flank you if you haven't dealt with them.

A rather current issue to talk about since the siberia base investigation is on my research list now and coming up within the next week (real time) probably.

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: Sell me on better weapons & better strategies!
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2017, 11:47:35 pm »
Hey, I'm on my first playthrough and had no idea what to expect.  I saved before I left for the mission, though - I'm going to try again with 13 Gals (and even more explosives) in the Fortuna.Edit:  And they still owned my punk ass in 3 rounds.   :-[

Am I one of the ONLY players who plays defensively?
Are you using your cover?

First few rounds you need to be ducking out of the ship, taking shots, shooting rockets, looking for the underground entrances. Maybe have somebody with high TUs to go out there and hide in the structures to do some spotting. Then make a break for the underground entrance and just rush it. Stay on the surface exposed and you'll get owned by the tanks and some of the other dudes.

Once you're underground you can just resolve most of that, and wait until the end for dealing with the Surface. In which case you're going to be ducking up to take shots at the tanks... rockets, grenades, and heavy laser type of thing, then drop back down to cover again.

Another tip - you probably want to shoot Snap shots or fire from out of view (even with your rocket launchers). If you use too many TU in your attacks you're going to run the risk of the Tanks being able to reaction fire on you (reaction fire, as explained in the bootypedia, is not a random chance - the more TU you use the more likely someone will be able to react).

This is a good map to bring Baby Nukes to, since you wont have to fight this mission again.

(without a doubt they will Not Surrender in this mission, so dont bother with that tactic... im not sure the supersoldiers can even surrender)

---
Edit - Also in a recent pogrom mission with ratmen I had a tank that took an entire series of melee hits from a lowly ratman, from behind, probably with a cutlass. And it clipped over 40 health from the tank.

So keep it in mind that if you've got a Tech Blade, Mace, with a hand of peak strength you can take down one of these tanks.

(im also thinking that if you can Surround a tank, one hand on each of the sides so that it cant move... it may not take any actions at all because its main weapon is explosive and it doesn't want to fire it at point blank range)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 12:04:16 am by RSSwizard »