Balance question

[MeteorBear]

I last played version 99b I believe and I loved everything about the game. I am thinking of starting a new game and I would like to know if melee combat was nerfed?

I remember reading how there were going to be changes to the melee, if its a lot weaker I am thinking of sticking with the old build. I would love to hear peoples thoughts on the general balance of the game since 99b's release, I know parrots were added but any major changes that I would be missing out on?

--- posts merged ---

OK, I just found my old game on my laptop and its version 98a. I didnt realize it but you can pick up the entire open xcom folder and transfer it to a different computer and continue playing!

I guessing the newest version is the best, its just hard to imagine since what I played in the 98a game seemed perfect. Awesome mod.

[ivandogovich]

Welcome back!  Significant campaign changes have been introduced since 98a!   I'd highly recommend firing up a new campaign in 99H, you won't regret it.

As far as melee goes, there has been some balance tweaks and many more new gadgets to thump, stab or slash with.  One of the biggest changes however is close quarters combat.  This makes point blank bursts of auto-fire much more likely to miss, so melee-ers dashing in don't have that as an insurance option.  However, it also makes it much less likely that enemies in melee range will successfully shoot your attacker.  So Melee is still incredibly alive and well and a critical part of this amazing game.

[khade]

Note that this CQC nerfs the hammer, pick and the chainsaws, as they count as ranged in order to damage the environment.

[Dioxine]

If removing their magical "always hits" ability counts as a nerf, then yes.

[Meridian]

If removing their magical "always hits" ability counts as a nerf, then yes.

Have you ever missed a huge wall/fence/tree with a huge hammer?
I haven't

As for moving targets... if you let a maniac with a chainsaw into a room with X people, there will be X casualties in 99.99% of cases (0.01% is reserved for heart attack, meteor impact, divine intervention and similar things during the massacre).

[Dioxine]

It doesn't miss terrain features though, Meridian.

As for the chainsaw maniac... depends on the people in the room, what are they armed with, how good they're at fighting, how crowded is the room, etc, etc. Chainsaw is actually not a very good melee weapon.

[The Reaver of Darkness]

Have you ever missed a huge wall/fence/tree with a huge hammer?
I haven't

I have, but not often. Apparently my civilian accuracy is far better than 90% of X-Com soldiers, but not nearly as good as the best 10%.

Accuracy could use a re-work overall but my main point is that melee attacks can and should miss, but not often.

[Zharkov]

Chainsaw is actually not a very good melee weapon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4beMWcQQuUA

This sums up my experience with chainsaws pretty much (using them as tools, that is). When you accidently try to saw something that is too hard or too tight or you connect with something in the wrong angle, you have to get the toolkit to set the chain.

[Yerland]

I can see the chainsaw being a hassle to use effectively against live targets, but I feel like the hammer and pickaxe are too inaccurate right now, I had a girl with ~80 melee charge a wounded ratman reaper with a pickaxe for the final blow, and ending up missing every swing and eating 11 rotocannon shots to her tac armor before collapsing to the ground. I think that a skilled melee combatant should be able to hit a fairly large monster.

[Dioxine]

You had about 50% to hit, using one of the worst melee weapons - a mining tool. I advise using something more effective, as well as not going full in without any backup. Lone charges with no support tend to end like this, sooner or later.

[Yerland]

I got overconfident because uptill that moment she had been cleaning house with a boarding gun easily. Luckily I got her a ton of xgrog on the next turn and she ended up surviving. Plus with how many mortal wounds she took, ended up healing a fair amount before the end of the battle.
Still feels like a mining implement like a pickaxe should be capable of some wicked AP damage.

[Ethereal_Medic]

I got overconfident because uptill that moment she had been cleaning house with a boarding gun easily. Luckily I got her a ton of xgrog on the next turn and she ended up surviving. Plus with how many mortal wounds she took, ended up healing a fair amount before the end of the battle.
Still feels like a mining implement like a pickaxe should be capable of some wicked AP damage.

Pickaxe and Hammer both got adjusted to fullfill your needs for bashing sturdy walls where bullets fail to break the environment.
The previous versions of hammer and pickaxe offered 100% hits with sizable damage against anything your gals could approach with enough TU and Stamina left.
Many melee weapons couldn't keep up with the brute force of hammer and pickaxe.

Since these tools are 1-tile-range 'guns' they have to roll a CQC-check now. It's only logic that weapons like those are slow and bulky and offer a target time to react and dodge the hit rather than something swift and handy like a dagger.