Author Topic: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.50)  (Read 365952 times)

Offline Nord

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1350 on: February 10, 2020, 07:03:25 am »
It is questionable. I am not satisfied with current situation, but i have done it before with some purpose. I just cant remember it. I can reconsider melee costs, but to which numbers?

Offline Amoebka

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1351 on: February 10, 2020, 08:56:11 am »
This will be a long and complicated post. I can write it in russian if that will make it easier for you to read (russian is my first language anyway).

Right now your numbers seem to be based around snap shots of comparable sonic weapons (given the average 65 TU soldier). Thermic lance costs about the same as sonic rifle snap and does similar damage, vibro blade costs the same as sonic pistol snap and does similar damage, etc.

I don't think this is quite reasonable. Melee weapons should be better in melee than point blank shots, not same or worse. You need to run up risking reaction fire every step, risking melee reactions, leaving yourself out in the open, and if you miss the alien will shoot you point blank. Plus for whatever reason all melee weapons have absolute garbage accuracy in the mod, while point blank rifle fire almost never misses, which means melee should be a lot faster than shooting to be balanced.

Personally I think accuracy is the bigger problem with melee right now, but for TU costs some suggestions would be:
1) Lower the number by about 35-40% (9% to 6 flat for vibro knife, 20% to 12 flat for vibro blade, etc). This way the weapons will be about the same effectiveness as they were in 2.36 for average soldiers, worse than before for rookies and better than before for maxed-out veterans.
2) Assume that an average soldier should be able to land a successful melee attack for less TU than a successful point blank shot from a similar sonic weapon. This is where melee accuracy really ruins the day. Average starting soldier only has 30 melee accuracy, further penalised by the weapon. Assuming pool training is mandatory, we can say 50 melee accuracy is the average. This means that vibro blade, for example, needs to be twice as fast as point blank snaps from a sonic pistol, which is also around 12 TU per attack.

I think the best course of action is to adjust the numbers by 35-40% and then raise the accuracy of weapons that need it (thermic lance, heavy lance and trident, unless it is supposed to be really bad).

Offline MasterBLB

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1352 on: February 10, 2020, 12:01:55 pm »
It is questionable. I am not satisfied with current situation, but i have done it before with some purpose. I just cant remember it. I can reconsider melee costs, but to which numbers?

Well, from playing vanila TFTD 20 years ago I remember I wasn't using Heavy Thermic Lances due to 16-18 TU attack cost which I've found too high for practical use - by practical use I mean oneshooting a lobsterman. I stuck with Vibro Bladess/Thermic Lances whose attacks cost around 7-11 TU if I recall correctly, and whose (Thermic Lance) was able to put lobsterman down in 2 hits just like heavy version, while oneshooting practically all other aliens.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 01:39:20 pm by MasterBLB »

Offline Alazar

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1353 on: February 10, 2020, 02:55:48 pm »
I personally dont like the cost on chainswords: like 55% TU, for one hit, two handed?. Emperor does not approve.
Being real though, this weapon damage is insane, but TU cost of operating it is making it useless or heavily reliant on ambush tactics. Makes a good meme weapon for making shortcuts on 1st part of alien base assaults.

Offline Amoebka

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1354 on: February 10, 2020, 03:23:57 pm »
Chainsword looks like it's intended to be a terrain-destroying tool (it's strong enough to cut USO hulls and create new entrances), not a melee weapon. I guess it could use a better name to indicate its purpose.

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1355 on: February 10, 2020, 05:34:20 pm »
So technically an Eviscerator, not a standard chainsword. 55% would be pretty okay for an Eviscerator. :)

Offline Alazar

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1356 on: February 11, 2020, 12:42:30 pm »
Chainsword looks like it's intended to be a terrain-destroying tool (it's strong enough to cut USO hulls and create new entrances), not a melee weapon. I guess it could use a better name to indicate its purpose.
Ever tried opening a metal door with a chainsaw?

Anyway if I need a hole in a wall, I use disruptor launcher, yeah it also kills or heavily wounds everything in immidiate area so thats a win for me.

So technically an Eviscerator, not a standard chainsword. 55% would be pretty okay for an Eviscerator. :)
Eh, looks more like 30k early type chainsword.

Oh and its 60% TU, even less usable.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 12:50:28 pm by Alazar »

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1357 on: February 12, 2020, 04:56:47 am »
Bug report, not sure if this has been fixed yet:
The piles of rubble inside the military dig site are blocking too much vision relative to how large they are.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 04:59:33 am by The Reaver of Darkness »

Offline Nord

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1358 on: February 12, 2020, 05:11:01 am »
Fixed long ago.

Offline MasterBLB

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1359 on: February 12, 2020, 12:00:10 pm »
@Nord
Are Aquatoids just extinct so I don't face them in USO missions, or it's just RNG, or at the some part of campaign they appear only in specific mission types?

Offline Amoebka

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1360 on: February 12, 2020, 05:21:00 pm »
Aquatoids are replaced by enhanced aquatoids past a certain point on all missions except resource raids (which might be an oversight). And if you have an aquatoid base they will keep spawning from it too.

Offline MasterBLB

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1361 on: February 12, 2020, 11:24:04 pm »
Naay, neither base nor enhanced ones appear outside alien barge/alien underwater lab missions.

Btw @Nord, is Sonic Oscillator nerfed? I remember it from vanila TFTD having bigger range than 55km, and definitely higher rate of fire. The one in your mod is hardly usable, sadly :/

Offline Nord

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1362 on: February 13, 2020, 06:46:07 am »
Naay, neither base nor enhanced ones appear outside alien barge/alien underwater lab missions.

Btw @Nord, is Sonic Oscillator nerfed? I remember it from vanila TFTD having bigger range than 55km, and definitely higher rate of fire. The one in your mod is hardly usable, sadly :/
Yes, nerfed. Vanilla one was an ultimate weapon, now it is very good cannon.

Offline MasterBLB

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1363 on: February 13, 2020, 02:36:00 pm »
Well, enemy interceptor UFOs still tear my Barracudas apart 1 vs 1 so I'd question that "very good" cannon. I can understand lower range, and necessity to use precious zrbite as ammo, but at least increase its DPS to some higher level - like 8-10s reload time, and higher accuracy. Otherwise its not worth using compared to gauss cannon:
1) lower DPS 4,583 vs 5,625
2) only 40% hit chance, which means most of the shots will miss. That wouldn't be that bad, but adding zrbite consumption to consideration makes usage of weapon rather not worth it.
3) it has double the range of the gauss cannon, that's true. However, it still does not outrange UFO interceptors so this merit has little matter.
In general, it seems overnerfed, and as mentioned in previous feedback these UFO interceptors cause balancing issues. Sooner or latter you'd have to ponder about them, and tweak values. I'm very disappointed about performance of the sonic oscillator considering how much tech I had to research to get it, how many rare materials use to manufacture and use one, but tech tree viewer hints something called ion cannon, I do hope that one will prove worth using.

Speaking about own-manufactured sonic weapons, XCOM sonic cannon is absolutely awful having only not much accurate auto mode, and sniper sonic rifle very high TU usage cost. I find it's better to stick with just gauss rifles and have alien sonic cannons loaded into ship as backup weapons.

I'm gonna write a huge feedback once I'll finish the game, meanwhile writing some finding now and then.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 10:22:13 pm by MasterBLB »

Offline Amoebka

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.37)
« Reply #1364 on: February 13, 2020, 04:30:35 pm »
Sonic oscillator actually doesn't consume any zrbite to fire at all. Don't tell Nord.