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Author Topic: Looking for some base management advice  (Read 22355 times)

Offline arbee81

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Looking for some base management advice
« on: April 24, 2017, 04:17:34 am »
Hey everyone, I was hoping to get some tips on base management.  In vanilla I would rarely expand much, usually just a manufacturing base and (maybe) a few radar outpost type bases.  The far shallower tech and item trees made it easy to just stick a few soldiers in for defense with some laser weapons (or just leave them unmanned).  I could usually get everything I needed from activity around the main base or from terror/base missions, so I rarely even bothered with a secondary squad, but it's become obvious that ain't gonna work here.

What usually happens is I'll make a new hideout, buy 10 or so hands for defense, but then I always get tripped up by equipping them.  Most of the good stuff I can make or buy they're not able to use because it's too heavy or their skill is too low to make good use of it. Add to that the wealth of different armors and melee and throwing being actually relevant now and I just find myself getting overwhelmed with trying to manage it all.  I opted for low-weight/high-accuracy carbines and pistols, and nearly lost to a ratman retaliation.  I had to resort to panzerfaust spam in the end.  It was embarrassing!

I'm trying to figure out if it's better to transfer a few good girls from my main base to the others to act as aces in the hole for defense, or if I should start trying to build up those defense hands with some of the easier missions.  I don't really want to dillute my main squad by shipping the good ones away, but maintaining multiple squads just seems like even more of a logistical nightmare.  And it leads to the next problem I'm facing:

I'm starting to run into cash flow issues.  I thought I had a good handle on the economic portion of the game, but I find I'm mostly just breaking even with the bases I have, and it's a challenge to put together the funds to expand them or upgrade gear/craft.  I think part of it is I haven't made the secondary production base beefy enough, and I also tend to horde things.  I think "I'll save those for a rainy day", but then the day is never "rainy" enough.  I always think I can squeek by without dipping into the horde.  I'm going to try to work on that stuff on my own, but in the meantime any advice on managing so many bases would be welcome.

Also, speaking of bases, I'm not quite done with year 2 and appear to have a star god base.  Is that normal or am I just lucky in the bad way?  I went to take a peak at it and found sectopods and what looked like ethereals in red robes called Star God Guardians, and promptly GTFO'd.

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2017, 05:04:41 am »
Welcome to the wonderful dilemas of PirateZ!

Yes you are luck in the nasty RNG way for getting such an early StarGod Base.  Easier might have been academy or guild.  Best to just leave it alone to late game.

Now your overall question is pretty deep but I'll throw some ideas out. 

My first base has the Only Lab you are likely to ever get in the game.  Therefore it kinda makes sense for that first base to be a primary research base.  I double it up as my main assault base as so much of research depends on interrogating prisoners for the first couple years.  I'm in April 2602 and have 2 prisons, workshop space for 90 runts, 16 brainers and about 18 gals based here. I use the runts to make weapons/armor/ammo, and when not on a project like that they are making med supplies for cash.  I've got lots of workers and slaves to make up for not building vaults.  I have two hangars, on for my Menace Class and one for a Jetbike to do ID on contacts and take down civilian shipping.

My second base is built to make cash and ships.  2 hangars.  One with an interceptor that I will shift out while building other craft.  I do have a second strike team here, geared up for hot environs and undersea missions as all are wearing Chiller suits.  Lots of underwater weapons on the craft but also some shotguns etc for overland missions.  This B-Team is for helping train up replacements for the A-team.  They can also provide some core defenses to bases during crackdowns.  Both bases have a couple dojos for passive training.  I have about 190 runts here making X-Grog here for 3+ million per month.  With my monthly expenses at about $5 million and income around $1 million, this goes a long way toward making up the expenses of my operation.  Income from sales during idle periods at the main base, plus the monthly bonus keep us even or a bit over. 

I have also thrown out 3 more bases for radar coverage.  I have 70% of the land masses covered, and am waiting for my Hyperwave Decoder project to finish so I can get some good intelligence on what is going on out there.  I'll drop two more bases for coverage on the poles and need to get coverage on South Africa at some point.

After Hyperwave Decoders, I need to build out another cash generating base.  Workshops and barracks are good enough with one money facility (still, mint, etc) until I can get Printers and Factories.  By end game I'll probably have 3 Factory Bases, and printers in two others.

Another consideration is a secondary research base.  Here is an example of a research base that I have used in the past.  https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Research_(Piratez)#Research_Base   Realistically, you may only need to build to a capacity of 20 extra brainers, and if you do, you will probably end up idling them at some point.  I'm not convinced this is critical for campaign completion but is an option to consider.   There are some other interesting configurations here: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Hideouts_(Piratez)

Offline Starving Poet

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2017, 05:41:36 am »
For base defense,  there are two things you need:  A weapon designed to take down power armor - like a recoiless rifle early game - and then standard weapons that can take down everything else.   If you're facing mercs, early on... Well... Cutting damage is always good.

There is a good chance any invader is going to be able to kill you in one shot, pretty much all the way until late game,  so focus on armor that will boost your combat ability.   

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Offline arbee81

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2017, 08:16:31 am »
Hey guys. Poet, I'm watching your LP now, I'm about 30 episodes from live, and Ivan, I've seen you commenting on all sorts of xcom vids. Small world, huh?

Ivan, your advice is very helpful, thank you. It confirms what  thought, which is my production base is just too small. I have 110 runts total there, which is enough for money OR gear, but not both. Do you staff the radar bases?

I've recently unlocked the dojo, but I'm wiped out on cash from starting a mint and putting in a few decoders. I was thinking that I need 3 production bases. One just for money, one for gal gear, and one for craft and their armaments. Just seems daunting trying to manage and defend all that, but then again that's half the fun, right?

The star god base is actually the third base. I had a trader base that I (if I'm being honest) save scummed my way through, and they set up another one. I'm waiting until I have some better gear and gals before trying that one so I can do it right.

Poet, thanks for confirming my basic approach to the defense is good, I think I just need better hands. Even with a smartrifle their accuracy was terrible. I'll prioritize the dojos, shift some gals around, and start on a second team. I think I need to slow down a bit too.  One thing I've noticed from your LP and others is that I'm too reckless

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Offline legionof1

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2017, 08:44:21 am »
2 and 1/2 bases devoted to production is about right. Though i tend to divide up the "1" base devoted to money making among the tracking bases. Having them do something even if it is just a still or a chem refinery, is far better then just being a vision post. Also slightly more resilient to being attacked in early to mid game period when you cant really afford defenses/garrisons. Leaving them unguarded and then losing them is less painful since its only a fraction of the total income engine.

You do need to devote one entire base to gear/craft production simply because getting all the prerequisite structures to build everything takes up to many tiles do do anything else there at the same time. I tend to build this base with only a single hanger to more easily accommodate the eventual 3x3 factory building in a defensible layout.

Starting base ends up being my research and troop staging base. About 30 runts are here to process prisoners/loot.

I also specialize a base as a training facility/interceptor base with spas, voodoo schools, and ~4 hangers. Gals here get rotated through pilot duty using it to supplement normal training. Ship out to join the ground troops as needed/when maxed out on most training.

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2017, 04:05:01 pm »
I really like legionof1's approach, though I've never done that.  Might try that a bit this campaign (Distributed manufacturing).

Poet gave great advice on the base weapons.  I've been reluctant to hire defenders in all the bases due to the huge salary increase due to scaling (each officer is more expensive and all the security troops would add more officers).  "Slave Soldiers" are supposed to be a cheap alternative, and I may throw a few out there.  Maybe 10 per Radar base just to fight rats.  That said though, I haven't been seriously bothered by rats.  Recent waves I've just mowed down the slow expeditions for pilot training.

Once the Hyperwave Decoder is up, the player has a lot more strategic flexibility.  You can see crackdown waves scout for you base.  You can shift your B-team over there, etc.  The easiest way is to Transfer an entire vessel over with crew/weapons etc.  You can even do an "In Air Transfer" where you launch the craft to patrol, then transfer it (in your base interface), then tell it to return to hideout.  That may be faster.  Just need to have enough stores/barracks etc.

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2017, 05:35:22 pm »
I really like the idea of having a ship dedicated to a rapid response hideout defense team - I wish I'd thought of that.  If you build new bases with always hangar + hyperwave decoder + barracks + storage space at the very least, then you only need to outfit base defenders once, and just keep that team's gear up to date.  Or even a hybrid system where you keep some auxiliary units at each base with a few gals training in the dojo with basic rifles/armor, and let the rapid response team carry the melee beasts and heavy weapons.  You just need to be attentive to your radar screens and have a fairly fast transport - the Deliverator or Drakkar would be perfect for that.

Offline Ragshak

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2017, 06:20:32 pm »
And where do you plaece your bases? Any hints for "minimum bases to maximum land coverage without gaps"?

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2017, 06:28:25 pm »
I wouldn't worry too much about base placement as long as you don't have huge radar overlaps - 8 bases is plenty to cover practically everywhere but the middle of the pacific ocean, and you can get spy zeppelins to cover the gaps.

I usually place my first three bases in Europe along the Mediterranean, in the Central US, and in Southeast Asia, then just fill in around the edges as I see fit.

Offline arbee81

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2017, 07:21:37 pm »
Do the slave soldiers get any good? I was intrigued by them, spent a while building one up but he was still worse than even a starting gal. After he got killed I haven't really bothered except for the superhero costumes.  Maybe I'll get a few for each base to use as suicide bombers

I also like that idea of a fast response base defense group. I definitely need to focus on building up my workshops more. Currently it's hard enough to keep one group outfitted and still pay the bills. I'm looking forward to the challenge, though



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Offline legionof1

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2017, 03:02:56 am »
The slave soldiers only standout features are low upkeep cost, and slightly higher maximum psi STR, 70ish vs 60ish i dont recall the exact values. Beyond that they are weaker then a gal. However there outfits are actually better then 85% of the gals options in terms of heat/cold resist. I could see a batch of slaves setup to handle things like warehouses/temples and monster hunts in the mid game to take time pressure of the A team.

 

Offline Scorrpio

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2017, 07:13:15 am »
With manufacture, the more the better.  Every runt should be a money maker.   One base should have Factory and enough living space for 350 runts.  That base alone can churn out almost 40mil/month, even if you just buy the plastasteel.   The downer about factory is it has no printer and printer is critical for most advanced ammo and such.  So for my other bases, I prefer to have printer, extractor, refinery and several workshops.  Not as large a runt capacity but far more versatile.  My present game I got around 600 runts plugging away.   

Military-wise, eventually you may want to have a dedicated base with spa, surgery, mess hall, med bay and 3 or so voodoo schools as main assault team base, and leave original base as pure research/manufacture with only a defense crew.   I like to field 3 assault teams, and when a gal gets to max stats, rotate them out to other locations. Those with 120 firing and high reactions get fighter pilot duty.

In recap: one insane manufacture base with factory and 350 runts.  Original heavy research base with 30+ brainers.  One main assault team base with max heal boost and training.   One fighter base with 3-4 hangars.   Any spare space dedicated to manufacture with some secondary research.   

Offline juff

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2017, 09:55:43 am »
BTW, battletank m1 has the same $/hr as m1a if you buy the plastasteel, so there's no need to fuss around with buying stuff. also, upgrading to luxury barracks allows you to fit 520 runts into the base and will shoot down most crackdown ships.

Offline Zharkov

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2017, 07:05:19 pm »
Are there buildings you need for research, that are not obviously research buildings?

Offline Scorrpio

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2017, 09:20:51 pm »
Many cultural things (i.e. persuasion) need Mess Hall.  A fair number need Library.  Some hacking research (disks) needs either cpu core or your original lab.  Only one (Blood of Life) needs either surgery or original lab.   And a few techs specifically need cpu core.