Author Topic: X-Dogs Equipment.  (Read 2335 times)

Offline mumble

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X-Dogs Equipment.
« on: March 16, 2017, 09:02:36 pm »
Any chance we can give dogs a sort of...suicide vest later on? I know it seems screwy, but it might be helpful, given that dogs attack power is limited and does almost nothing later on. Just something with an armor rigged item that you can prime, and detonates on death (just like holding a grenade on death) so dogs can be disposable kamikaze units...

....Or perhaps a muzzle with a stun rod grafted to the front
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 10:23:53 am by mumble »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: X-Dogs Weaponry
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2017, 09:08:30 pm »
Any chance we can give dogs a sort of...suicide vest later on? I know it seems screwy, but it might be helpful, given that dogs attack power is limited and does almost nothing later on. Just something with an armor rigged item that you can prime, and detonates on death (just like holding a grenade on death) so dogs can be disposable kamikaze units...

....Or perhaps a muzzle with a stun rod grafted to the front

The allahu ackbar vest would technically be possible... But historical sources show us clearly that it does not work! (Dogs tend to come back to their owners and blow them up. Red Army tried hard at this, but ultimately gave up.)

But the stun rod is just OP. :P

Offline mumble

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Re: X-Dogs Weaponry
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2017, 09:16:34 pm »
Well, if you had essentially a radio controlled explosive vest on them, it might work... Let the dog run up, and get within range, then blow them up. Or just have it hooked to a vitals monitor when primed so when vitals turn off, it makes the bomb live. It would be balanced, IMO, as the point loss, the possible morale loss, and economic cost of the dog, and the vest, would balance out a guided furry ground missle. Or, perhaps even hook up a neural sensor to the teeth to make biting trigger the explosive?  I MEAN THIS IS XCOM!!!! Surely they can figure outsmarting a dog (can't believe I'm debating suicide bomber dogs  ;D ::))

I see what you mean about stun rods...how about a sort of alloy knife then? Something sharper than dog teeth, more dangerous, but also not ridiculous? Because thats my issue, it seems like dogs get a bad deal after a bit, people like red dawn folks in armor, aliens, and others just are hopeless for dogs to take, because teeth simply does not get through armor. Even if it has similar damage, but a -30% armor, or something.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 09:57:16 pm by mumble »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: X-Dogs Weaponry
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2017, 09:40:14 pm »
Yeah, the "alloy jaws" could be a thing.

I think it'd fit the Power Dog armour, if it ever happens ;)

)Also I made another thread outta this.)

Offline mumble

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Re: X-Dogs Weaponry
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 09:56:44 pm »
Yeah, the "alloy jaws" could be a thing.

I think it'd fit the Power Dog armour, if it ever happens ;)


Thanks, and sorry for the derail.

This is why I suggested a sort of muzzle fixed sabre or dagger, or something : Because yes, power armor for dogs would work, but should dogs be useless from the point enemies get armor, to where YOU get power armor? You can argue they are scouts, but we even have scout tanks for that...

Another thoughts is maybe training dogs into having a gun rig on them, allowing them to fire some guns with limited accuracy? Like a shotgun on their back, rigged to a bite sensor, or whathave you

I'm not sure what you would consider the best idea, but frankly I'm worried the dogs are a bit redundant now : interesting, but become useless once you get a dragonfly and can afford to diversify troops, because by that time most things have armor of some sort, enough to stop dog bites.

Another idea : maybe they could be made to have enough strength to carry just a few items? I mean, I get you dont want them throwing like a quarter back, or anything, but dogs can often pack equipment just fine, up to 100lbs on some dogs

...It could also be interesting as a rig for bombs to be dropped, with a short fuse, BY dogs, like a long research after explosives license is unlocked, where you train dogs in the use / safety of explosives, and design an explosive setup dogs are capable of utilizing via maybe a switch they "scratch" behind them with their hind leg, or something.

Offline Dr.Crowley

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Re: X-Dogs Weaponry
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 11:08:05 pm »
The allahu ackbar vest would technically be possible... But historical sources show us clearly that it does not work! (Dogs tend to come back to their owners and blow them up. Red Army tried hard at this, but ultimately gave up.)
Well, Red Army almost solved this problem but dropped this idea just because the situation became not so desperate. Why do you need canine suicide bombers when you have some real AT weaponry.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: X-Dogs Weaponry
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 11:09:09 pm »
This is why I suggested a sort of muzzle fixed sabre or dagger, or something : Because yes, power armor for dogs would work, but should dogs be useless from the point enemies get armor, to where YOU get power armor? You can argue they are scouts, but we even have scout tanks for that...

Yes. That's basically it.

I mean, dogs are useful all around. No need to make them better. Sure, they're not as good as in early game, but they have their place.

Another thoughts is maybe training dogs into having a gun rig on them, allowing them to fire some guns with limited accuracy? Like a shotgun on their back, rigged to a bite sensor, or whathave you

Sorry, but all I could think of was



(Star vs. Forces of Evil. A pretty rad cartoon.)

I'm not sure what you would consider the best idea, but frankly I'm worried the dogs are a bit redundant now : interesting, but become useless once you get a dragonfly and can afford to diversify troops, because by that time most things have armor of some sort, enough to stop dog bites.

Yep. That's how it's gotta be!

Another idea : maybe they could be made to have enough strength to carry just a few items? I mean, I get you dont want them throwing like a quarter back, or anything, but dogs can often pack equipment just fine, up to 100lbs on some dogs

Hmm, maybe if I add St. Bernards...

...It could also be interesting as a rig for bombs to be dropped, with a short fuse, BY dogs, like a long research after explosives license is unlocked, where you train dogs in the use / safety of explosives, and design an explosive setup dogs are capable of utilizing via maybe a switch they "scratch" behind them with their hind leg, or something.

No, people would kill me. :P

Well, Red Army almost solved this problem but dropped this idea just because the situation became not so desperate. Why do you need canine suicide bombers when you have some real AT weaponry.

Yeah, well, I still think it would be far less practical for X-Com than it was for the anti-tank squads.

Offline mumble

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Re: X-Dogs Weaponry
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2017, 12:40:23 am »
Perhaps surgery to give dogs alloy blade fangs? Buy dogs, manufacture them via the biolab, and then put them into combat with that, as well as a bit more health?

I could see it as a neat function : adding more attack power, making them beefier and tougher, and faster too, perhaps as an "experiment" into the mutant serums and such... After all, can't test them on humans first, right?  ;) sorry, just dogs have plenty more potential...carrying gear on their back (with more strength) their agility is handy, and many other things

....Though I realize now I can totally pack a stick of TNT on a dogs satchel to make it blow up a terrorist as it charges in.. ...hmmn...Just need someone with opposable thumbs to arm it first  :D yes, I know this is awful, but its not much worse than suicide bomb defending your own base is it?

I guess rethinking it, all I have is this : Dogs should have enough strength to carry a few clips or other gear : even German Shepards can pack around 50 pounds without much of a problem, and I figure a clip, bomb, and a medkit would fit for that.  It would compliment the dogs key strength : SPEED, allowing them to deliver a medkit, or ammo around the battlescape.

Offline Slaughter

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Re: X-Dogs Weaponry
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2017, 01:32:26 am »
Reminds me of playing Fallout Tactics online and getting my power armored dudes killed by dogs


A cool idea would be a dog tackle attack. Some big dogs can take even large humans down effortlessely. Maybe take AP off instead of stun.

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Offline Niewiem

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Re: X-Dogs Weaponry
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2017, 09:51:00 am »
I agree that ogs should be able to have some strenght to carry items but i think strenght 10 would be max

Offline mumble

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Re: X-Dogs Weaponry
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2017, 10:11:41 am »
I would argue 25, maybe 30, or more, for other breeds... I mean, pockets are limiting ANYWAY, as is ability to use them, so why make it so low?

Besides, 10 means they could never carry a medkit, so a medic dog similar to rescue dogs in the mountains wouldn't be a thing.. ..and I really want that to be a thing

Got admit having a spotter / medic dog to immediately run over a medkit ASAP to people in trouble is a nice idea, and would partly resolve "useless" dogs quite a bit.

Plus, keep in mind, 18 is pretty much anorexic weak, and dogs can carry more sometimes than a frail female, so, I think dogs should be given a LITTLE credit

Big thing is giving them the room to do so, the harnesses, ect... ...I suppose there might be questions on how they put stuff in / out, but thats already there now anyway... .. It can be assumed they have it in their mouth, but... This does not explain everything, such as multiple large items. Besides that, I could see the "hind leg scratch" technique applied to fastening items with velcro or whatever, with damn good training.

.... a better idea is to limit the actual pockets availible to the dogs, based on armor...

slots is ability to actually hold / fasten to body....strength is how much your muscles / spine can tolerate.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 10:17:16 am by mumble »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: X-Dogs Equipment.
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2017, 10:59:47 am »
Strength is not an issue since you can drop the thing and pick it up again. Which is a better portrayal of dog behaviour, I think.

Also note that we can't use soldiers for manufacturing.

Offline Dr.Crowley

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Re: X-Dogs Equipment.
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2017, 01:28:57 pm »
Remember Allied Attack Dogs from Red Alert 3? They could bark so loud (thanks to some kind of sonic device) that any enemy in range would be stunned. I guess that's better (and not so silly) than suicide packs or canine power armor.
However, let's remember the reason why we ever use service dogs IRL: their great sence of smell. When I started my playthrough - that was before dogs were gated behind later research in v.0.5.5 - I found that dogs are very helpful (for early game, of course) because they can move and attack faster than my agents and possess a "built-in" detector (sniff). But later the dogs became essentially useless because they lack of any good armor... damn.
Well, I see it now. The real problem for our K-9 unit is personal protection. I have no idea how to solve it without giving them power suits :-\