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Author Topic: High-Res Graphics?  (Read 24998 times)

Offline Amunak

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High-Res Graphics?
« on: July 05, 2012, 11:00:02 am »
Hello, first of all I have to say that I love the fact that someone still cares about the good old XCom and that you actually develop a reimplementation of it.

I tried to find  some information about this, but I couldn't - is it possible to make custom graphics in higher resolution? So that it's not all that pixely? You know pixels are nice, I play Minecraft, but I had a dream of remaking UFO just with a better graphics and bugs fixed. You are now working on the second thingy, so I'm curious if it's possible to make it run in a high resolution with nicer, "sharper" graphics.

Since I'm probably in a wrong category, feel free to move me. Also, please keep up the good work!
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 09:04:06 pm by michal »

Offline Daiky

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2012, 11:34:54 am »
Hi Amunak,
it's probably discussed a few times already. But in short with the current engine it is not possible to have high-res graphics. The goal of openxcom was to work with the original graphics, so the engine is really built just for that purpose.
It doesn't mean it will never be possible, it's opensource, so any programmer can pick it up and rebuild the engine to work with high-res graphics if they want to. So far, I'm not aware of such a side-project.

Offline luke83

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 11:53:01 am »
The topic of death, everyone who asks for this goes missing. :'(

There may be some light in the horizons with https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,183.0.html  AND https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,118.msg706.html#msg706



Offline michal

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2012, 12:37:01 pm »
I bet it will happen someday. But first top priority is to implement remaining functionality. That's the boring stuff ;) After that, i'm sure there will be ppl who will do some crazy things :)

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2012, 01:53:36 pm »
Really this project is only a "first step" of making geo-tactic engine (which might be even used for commercial game), so even original gameplay could be reimplemented using it with ease.

With current openxcom with yaml rulests I don't see how to achieve that without rewriting it from scratch. My point is - pure reimplementing is senseless, modding openxcom will be kinda pain. So the real value of openxcom is gameplay algorithms (with variations), and proof-testing of these algorithms in terms of usefulness for the next step.

Offline Daiky

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2012, 03:11:12 pm »
I bet there are people lurking around who have written their high-resolution graphics geo-tactic engine, just waiting for openxcom to be finished so they can copy-paste all the boring stuff from openxcom in their engine. Pay some artists to redraw all sprites, and then, tadaaa :p

Offline Amunak

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2012, 05:20:03 pm »
I saw an awesome screenshot. Exactly what I'm dreaming for.

I'm actually a bit of programmer, but sadly I have never tried C++.

As I read the other topics I assume that it's not that hard to implement it, it's just plenty of work to make all the coords in the game scalable.

Volutar

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2012, 06:00:21 pm »
Yeah, scalable coords, but with screen proportions somehow taken into account. It hardly possible with pixel-rendering engine on "awesome screenshot" - it will become really slow. It more feasible with opengl. And this was mentioned number of times, and it will be only after 1.0.

Offline michal

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2012, 09:03:21 pm »
Also, maybe when OpenXcom 1.0 will be released, SDL 2.0 will be finished - which could help, as it uses opengl acceleration.

Offline SupSuper

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2012, 04:04:41 pm »
Ah, high-res graphics, the eternal question... :P

Ok, time to clear up some misconceptions. OpenXcom is not meant to be just a complete reproduction of the original game. Sure, it just look like that now, but priorities and all that. A lot of people think you can only have either the original experience or a new experience, but not both. That you can't have your cake and eat it. A lot of remakes seem to prove them right. Well, I choose to prove that wrong! I can have my cake and eat it too! It's just a really long-winded cake that takes years to make and the frosting is starting to melt and... anyways!

My ultimate goal with OpenXcom is to have a fully-moddable open-source X-Com engine. This means that, by default, the game will always support the original gameplay with original graphics et all, no questions asked. But, if that's not enough for the player, they can have more. They can mod the gameplay, the graphics, options, etc, however they want. It's up to them. OpenXcom will not try to enforce some "best" way to play, a lot of remakes have tried to do that and failed, in the end different people have different tastes and you just end up with a lot of bickering. Instead, it will be open as much as possible to whatever way they want to play. If that's not enough, they can even go all the way, take the code and adapt it into their own completely new remake. Maybe then they won't always have to start from scratch.


So, if that's the plan, why is the engine apparently so hardcoded to original gameplay and stuck on boring old graphics with routines only supporting old-fashioned pixel blitting and 8bpp palettes and so on? See, I don't have a problem with high-res graphics, really. Sure I love the original style, but I love fancy new stuff too, and I'd love it if my game looked like Xenonauts or XCOM: Enemy Unknown, and OpenXcom ran on this hardware-accelerated wiz-bang 24-bpp fancy-graphics super-cool-engine and it was the best thing ever and... but here's the catch, every decision a programmer makes comes at a cost.

So back when I first started, I had an option. I could have designed it from the start with this great big open architecture, supporting all kinds of mods, 24bpp graphics, open resolutions, OpenGL, etc. Or I could have just taken the easiest approach for getting the game running with what I had, original gameplay and graphics and all. In the end I picked the latter, since it was fairly experimental at the time, I'm a terrible artist and I'd rather work to my strengths. It kinda bit me in the long run because now the engine is fairly engrained in its 8bpp nature and it'll take one hell of an overhaul to fix that. But on the bright side there's an actual game with tons of gameplay to show for it, and if I had taken the former I might have this big open amazing perfect engine but with no actual content, so I remain confident.

Plus the retro look kinda helps keep it distinct from all the other remakes out there. :P


tl;dr: v1.0+

Offline michal

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2012, 06:03:34 pm »
So back when I first started, I had an option. I could have designed it from the start with this great big open architecture, supporting all kinds of mods, 24bpp graphics, open resolutions, OpenGL, etc. Or I could have just taken the easiest approach for getting the game running with what I had, original gameplay and graphics and all. In the end I picked the latter, since it was fairly experimental at the time, I'm a terrible artist and I'd rather work to my strengths. It kinda bit me in the long run because now the engine is fairly engrained in its 8bpp nature and it'll take one hell of an overhaul to fix that. But on the bright side there's an actual game with tons of gameplay to show for it, and if I had taken the former I might have this big open amazing perfect engine but with no actual content, so I remain confident.

It was best decision you could make. It's easier to start simple and then evolve later. Especially in open source project with limited resources. There were many who wanted to do great remakes with new engine, new art. Now which of them is still alive? Only UFO: AI

Offline luke83

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2012, 06:44:27 pm »
You made the only SANE choice, people are still buying and playing the original so obviously the game still holds its own 18 years later and your version comes with something the original never did, the freedom to try some messed up stuff.

 Stay the course , you and your team are doing great ;)


As for openxcom being fully moddsable , i dream about using the battle scape engine to make a opensource computerised version for modrheim,
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordheim
https://mordheim.ashtonsanders.com/

 Obviously the geoscape would need major changes.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 01:31:36 am by luke83 »

Offline Yankes

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2012, 02:04:16 am »
8bit is enough to made some fun in graphic :) like more realistic light in battlescape (using same trick like in globescape).
Sometimes limitation can made game look better than similar game in more advanced graphic.

Offline moriarty

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2012, 09:39:45 am »
8bit is enough to made some fun in graphic :) like more realistic light in battlescape (using same trick like in globescape).
Sometimes limitation can made game look better than similar game in more advanced graphic.

ohhh yes. I like the 8bit look. it is well on the safe side of the uncanny valley, and hardly has to worry about shiny sparkly stuff distracting from the actual game. :) it's like a good book: lots of narrative, but enough space for imagination.

Offline Daiky

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Re: High-Res Graphics?
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2012, 04:52:34 pm »
hehe, nice analogy. And it's true. People's minds are really good at filling the gaps in what we see. Especially if the context is right to get in the experience.
Also the graphics help to give a good first impression and nice screenshots, which is needed to sell a new game. However the X-Com doesn't need a first impression anymore, we know it's good :)