Author Topic: [Documentation] Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)  (Read 14556 times)

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2016, 08:41:00 pm »
I will probably build my system on top of yours (or be more accurate it will respect your rulesets). It will take couple of weeks before I will start working on my version and it would be pain in a** to change mods when my version will be released or wait for me to finish it.

Overall my goal for changing visibility it will be exposing calculation of visibility of unit to scripts. You will get all basic data like both units, light, distance and smoke density.
From that you could do any calculations to determine if unit is visible or not. This mean that you can ignore smoke or make smoke more potent. Like wise I plan adding fire density too, it will be ignored by default calculations but mod can use it to recreate heatvison (smoke and light is ignored and fire work like smoke).

A bit of a tangent, but would it be possible to add support for different smoke types ala Apocalypse? Would be especially good if their properties were modular (damage type, damage amount, smoke density, etc); that way you could make a variety of different gasses (poison, acid, stun, etc).

Offline Yankes

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2016, 08:57:34 pm »
A bit of a tangent, but would it be possible to add support for different smoke types ala Apocalypse? Would be especially good if their properties were modular (damage type, damage amount, smoke density, etc); that way you could make a variety of different gasses (poison, acid, stun, etc).
Right now its out the scope, I was thinking about this but it will need lot of work. Is some far future when I finish other things I will do something with that.

Offline Star_Treasure

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2016, 09:29:19 pm »
It would be cool if Xcom could have seperate armor items, allowing you to mix and match helmets (For NVGs, gas masks, ect) That would mean some pretty heavy changes to the engine however.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2016, 11:24:00 pm »
It would be cool if Xcom could have seperate armor items, allowing you to mix and match helmets (For NVGs, gas masks, ect) That would mean some pretty heavy changes to the engine however.

Seconded.
Also a function of an object which limit its functionality to a particular location on the body; for example a helmet only works when worn on the head, not in the backpack.

Offline clownagent

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2016, 05:30:38 pm »
PS: activeCamouflage doesn't work on units under Xcom control (incl. mind-controlled enemies)... I don't want people to cripple AI even more... enemies and neutrals have unimpaired vision.

Should not Thieving Gear and Guerilla Armor also impair the enemies vision by a small amount?

Offline Meridian

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2016, 05:36:20 pm »
Should not Thieving Gear and Guerilla Armor also impair the enemies vision by a small amount?

I have allowed it in today's release. Do your worst :)

Offline legionof1

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2016, 05:34:31 pm »
Woot bollocks visibility hacks begone. Missing voxels is a shitty way to do stealth since it messed with both projectiles and melee in different ways. Also finiky as all hell. No more watching projectiles hit from one way but not 7 others despite passing through the  same square. No more catgirls being immune to everything when facing sideways a half tile higher.

Offline nrafield

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2016, 06:14:35 pm »
How does Alien vision work anyway? Is there an article on it? Or is it that simple that if an alien sees one of your soldiers, each alien gets to know that soldier's exact location for the number of turns denoted by their Intelligence stat?

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2016, 06:56:46 pm »
How does Alien vision work anyway? Is there an article on it? Or is it that simple that if an alien sees one of your soldiers, each alien gets to know that soldier's exact location for the number of turns denoted by their Intelligence stat?

Yup, thats pretty much it.  :)

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2016, 07:27:24 pm »
Woot bollocks visibility hacks begone. Missing voxels is a shitty way to do stealth since it messed with both projectiles and melee in different ways. Also finiky as all hell. No more watching projectiles hit from one way but not 7 others despite passing through the  same square. No more catgirls being immune to everything when facing sideways a half tile higher.

Well, I'm not quite sure how to manage that, to be honest. I've used the active camo and predator vision to increase variety/reinforce roles of some enemies and armors, yes, but did not change the catgirls and star gods (and ghost armor) yet. While the hack is ugly as hell, this type of camo will simplify any engagement with star gods or catgirls to "smoke a lot, use scouts, kill them from afar". No need to assume a damage-tanking, spread-out formation anymore. No need to use baits. No real need for scanners, as their range is too small to matter.
If the predator vision allowed to see through smoke, the player would be at least forced to use cover.
As for the Ghost armor, it can actually work, but the Ghost Beam needs to be re-thought as it'd allow a Ghost to kill stuff with complete impunity.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2016, 07:30:19 pm »
Well, I'm not quite sure how to manage that, to be honest. I've used the active camo and predator vision to increase variety/reinforce roles of some enemies and armors, yes, but did not change the catgirls and star gods (and ghost armor) yet. While the hack is ugly as hell, this type of camo will simplify any engagement with star gods or catgirls to "smoke a lot, use scouts, kill them from afar".

As opposed to what? Spam the map with explosives? Works pretty well and it's not too far from my standard MO anyways. I go full IDF/Vimy Ridge on these motherfuckers.

Also, you could make the active camo require getting damned close, like 1-3 tiles close and it would be about the same experience as what exists now.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 07:33:02 pm by Surrealistik »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2016, 07:33:04 pm »
Spamming the map with explosives works on everything, so, once you can afford this 'tactic', you will roll over pretty much any enemy, regardless of their stats or invisibility.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2016, 07:36:23 pm »
Spamming the map with explosives works on everything, so, once you can afford this 'tactic', you will roll over pretty much any enemy, regardless of their stats or invisibility.

Yeah but the Star Gods basically mandate it; it's either that or welcome to casualty land, home of the trial and error.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2016, 07:46:59 pm »
Well, I'm open to suggestions how to handle this invisibility un-hacking. At least the basterds will be hittable in melee, which immunity was a major pain. I still think that there should be vision mode that allows some enemies to see through smoke, else it's all too easy. Also, scanners... Detecting invisibles was their main boon. Unless I will make some truly ethereal enemies which are fully unhittable, except by explosives, and need to be first relieved of their ethereal status by a well-placed explosion...

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Active camouflage and predator vision ;-)
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2016, 07:51:16 pm »
Unless I will make some truly ethereal enemies which are fully unhittable, except by explosives, and need to be first relieved of their ethereal status by a well-placed explosion...

Are you referring to the so-called Phased Ones?

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