Author Topic: Starting base location  (Read 13551 times)

Offline Premier

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Starting base location
« on: August 02, 2016, 01:01:05 am »
So far, I've ragequitted two playthroughs because prominent missions (in one case, the first hostile base; in the other, the very first mission of the game) were placed out of the Airbus's reach. So, my question is:

What starting location maximises your ability to reach land targets? Are there any locations from where every major landmass (so, not counting stuff like Hawaii, random bits of Alaska, maybe the Antarctic, etc.) is reachable with your starter craft?

And on that note, considering how your early game is almost exclusively about going to random event sites and NOT shooting down/capturing UFOs, are there any other major factors in determining a good starting spot?

Offline KateMicucci

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2016, 01:20:24 am »
Ragequitting was a bad idea. Skipping a few missions doesn't matter at all and you get better vehicles pretty quickly. This isn't Xcom 2012 where skipping a mission will lose you the game.

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 01:26:14 am »
I don't have the range of the Airbus in my head, but generally Central Asia, middle east will probably serve well for getting coverage on a lot of the land mass.  My first base went into Greece and I haven't had many issues.  Yep. I missed some missions in Australia and Western Hemisphere, but that is fine as Kate has stated.  Just normal early game stuff.

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2016, 01:29:14 am »
Somewhere in the Americas, just not too far north or south, can work too.  The more important factor is getting radar coverage for as many countries as possible.  Wait, and the missions will come to you.

Offline khade

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2016, 01:34:51 am »
I don't know about a starting location, as I usually select one based on what name I want to use and where that should be, but you can still deal with ufos, it's just a matter of stalking them until they either land or you lose them, usually you lose them.

I think Europe is actually decent for getting to most places, though.

Offline Premier

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2016, 01:50:52 am »
Ragequitting was a bad idea. Skipping a few missions doesn't matter at all and you get better vehicles pretty quickly. This isn't Xcom 2012 where skipping a mission will lose you the game.

Normally I wouldn't have ragequit, but these two were special. With the very first mission, it was, like, the very first mission, quite possibly the only one I was going get that entire month, so What do you mean, "fuck me"? Fuck you, computer!

The one with the enemy base cropping up was just after a new version came out, and I prefer to start over with new versions, anyway.

I don't have the range of the Airbus in my head, but generally Central Asia, middle east will probably serve well for getting coverage on a lot of the land mass.  My first base went into Greece and I haven't had many issues.  Yep. I missed some missions in Australia and Western Hemisphere, but that is fine as Kate has stated.  Just normal early game stuff.

Both times I've had my base in what would be roughly western Turkey today. One of the unreachable things was in SE Australia (or maybe New Zealand, don't recall), the other in southern Chile.

Somewhere in the Americas, just not too far north or south, can work too.  The more important factor is getting radar coverage for as many countries as possible.  Wait, and the missions will come to you.

Okay, let me ask: why is radar coverage important in the early game? I've been under the impression it doesn't affect the spawning of random ground missions, since those can appear anywhere. It would only help with following UFOs and assaulting them on the ground, but when you're still in the first year of the game, I'm not sure it would be worth the extra burden of paying upkeep for a whole bunch of radar bases all around the globe. I'm still stuck with my crammy Airbus, I imagine most of those distant landed UFOs would take off again by the time I got there.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2016, 01:58:01 am »
Okay, let me ask: why is radar coverage important in the early game? I've been under the impression it doesn't affect the spawning of random ground missions, since those can appear anywhere. It would only help with following UFOs and assaulting them on the ground, but when you're still in the first year of the game, I'm not sure it would be worth the extra burden of paying upkeep for a whole bunch of radar bases all around the globe. I'm still stuck with my crammy Airbus, I imagine most of those distant landed UFOs would take off again by the time I got there.

I think you are completely right. Radar coverage is kinda important a bit later, but in the first months there are only two objectives: 1) do not go below 0 money, 2) do not go below 0 points. The former is easy if you are careful - make X-Grog for sale, don't buy too much expensive stuff and above all, watch your monthly payments. The latter is usually taken care of by research alone.

Offline legionof1

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2016, 02:32:32 am »
Radar is not quite as important at startup as it once was but it's still worth placing the initial base to maximize the free structures. The ideal location is approximately a triangle between Greece, Israel, and Northwestern coast of Egypt. I favor the southern side because desert terrain for the first few intercept site's if I can swing it makes life easier.

Offline BetaSpectre

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2016, 03:16:08 am »
I prefer around Egypt or Italy, generally the airbus can reach all the missions, as long as you get some cash you can hire more brainers to develop tech, once you get mutant contacts you can get the skyranger, and other nifty stuff, I mostly sold fuel from the manufacturing thingy for money, but clothes anything makes money.

Offline Premier

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2016, 07:21:32 pm »
Update: right now I'm feeling a bit pissed off. I've started another game, spent the first month waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting, and... I got a mission! Outside the Airbus's range, again.

So, at this point, I'm wondering: what is the gameplay benefit of limiting the Airbus's reach across the globe? Is there even one?

The way I see it, limited range can force the player to be a better planner and strategist in a number of different situations. Let's have a look at these:

- Limited range means you can't just intercept and shoot down UFOs anywhere in the world from your HQ, forcing you to plan ahead by placing outposts in different location. This is a good thing. Also, it does not apply to the Airbus, since it cannot intercept, anyway.

- Limited range also means you can't just shadow and ground assault UFOs anywhere from your HQ, so, again, you need to build outposts. Again, this is a good thing. Also again,  this does not apply to the Airbus. In the early game, which is when you use this ship, you only have one base, and that with pretty basic radar facilities (and no spy zeppelins) - meaning that you'll only be notified of UFOs in close vicinity, anyway. Consequently, this scenario can play out the following ways:

A, The ship lands within your radar range, you fly there and assault it. Since this is necessarily happening in your neighborhood, limiting the Airbus range or not is irrelevant.
B, You start shadowing the UFO, but it leaves your base's radar range before the Airbus could catch up and disappears. You CAN try going to its last known destination and search around, but with the Airbus's pitiful built-in radar you will NOT find it, and giving the Airbus 25% more fuel won't change that. Again, limiting the Airbus range or not is irrelevant.
C, The UFO is faster than the Airbus. See above, you'll never catch it, not even with more fuel. Again, Airbus range is irrelevant.
D, You shadow the UFO, the UFO gets to its destination and simply disappears without ever landing (like civilian shipping). You never get an assault opportunity, so Airbus range is irrelevant.
E, UFO is slower than Airbus, Airbus catches up and shadows the ship, UFO lands beyond radar range but within maybe three-quarters of a continent's distance. Airbus lands and you assault. In this case, increasing the Airbus's range does make this scenario likelier to happen. However, this scenario is exceedingly rare, and most attempts to shadow and ground assault will play out according to scenarios A to D, where increasing the Airbus's range would be irrelevant, and would not make the game "unfairly easy" or whatever.

So, the extra meaningful challenge in limiting range simply does not apply to the Airbus, because it's either incapable of participating in the relevant activities, or those activities will almost always play out in a way which is not affected by range, anyway. In contrast, the limited range does affect the one thing the Airbus is going to spend most of its time doing: ferrying troops to ground missions. And that is a bad thing, because in the early game, this is not a meaningful challenge. Spawning those much-needed ground missions too far away is not something that adds to gameplay by forcing the player to be more skillful. It's just a random fuck you-factor that the player has no way of influencing or overcoming with his skill.


To sum up: Limiting aircraft range can have a positive impact on the game by forcing players to use their skill. The Airbus, specifically, never gets into situations where limited range would interact with player skill. What limited range on the Airbus does, is add fake difficulty which is unfair because the early-game player has absolutely no influence on the outcome. Conclusion: limiting the Airbus's range so it can't reach anywhere on the globe is a poor design decision.

Offline Meridian

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2016, 07:36:21 pm »
Would anyone else like to quote tvtropes' fake difficulty article please? I haven't seen it enough in the recent days... please more!

Seriously man, aircraft range doesn't even qualify as "difficulty", it's just environment... it has same effect on game difficulty as trees being brown instead of green.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2016, 07:41:56 pm »
The reason Airbus is shitty beacuse it is supposed shitty. It has a "GET A BETTER CRAFT" painted all over it. If it was all skill-dependant, you could be giving 0 fucks about upgrading, since you could compensate everything with skill. Also, come on, what 'skill' are we talking about... thats elementary stuff, not skill. The role of Airbus is for you to hate it and try getting better craft. Or maybe not? Less missions, ok, but cheaper resource and research wise... It's not about skill. It's about choices.

If you hate it this much, it's good you ragequitted. Because it doesn't get any less frustrating later on.
Just a thought for today - frustration often presages pleasure...

Oh, also AIRCAR moots C & D. However, your misgivings tell me there is place for an even shittier transport than Aircar, but with an 'unlimited' range. Also more mission spawns specifically within close range, not randomly all over the globe. These are needed. However if you place your base in Eurasia or on US East Coast, even Airbus covers almost 2/3rds of potential mission sites.

Offline nrafield

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2016, 07:53:51 pm »
I just casually plonked mine in the middle of Europe and I was fine, in my opinion it doesn't matter a lot aside from ensuring optimal, non-overlapping coverage for Hyperwave Decoders in the future

The reason Airbus is shitty beacuse it is supposed shitty. It has a "GET A BETTER CRAFT" painted all over it.

I actually feel like I don't have enough stimuli to upgrade from Airbus to the Pachyderm in particular.  Two extra people and finally getting good range just didn't feel that useful for me. (besides maybe for Mansion missions) I wanted to rush to the Skyranger, but I didn't know what research unlocked it, so I spent a very long time  in the Airbus until I eventually gave up and got Pachyderm before it took me 2 more eternities to get somewhere. Then the Skyranger was useless because I was able to research Bonaventura almost immediately after I got the ability to purchase it.

Offline Drasnighta

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2016, 08:01:11 pm »
I will admit, I chuckled a little at the above...

...  But mostly because it didn't end with "And when everything goes fantastic and you chase down that UFO after it landed...  You find out its a Civilian and almost everything you do to it nets you negative points, so you should have just let it go, anyway..."

:D

I find Piratez to be supremely refereshing in regards to the Standard X-Com Game.

I don't need to chase and shoot down everything.  In fact, once I get aerial interception, 85% of the time, I fly out, find out its a civilian, and fly back...  Burning all the Hellerium while I'm at it :D

So picking and choosing battles - and understanding that, some times, your gals are going to be sitting on the couch and boozing up for a month .  It just happens. 

Hell, with the Pachy, even after getting the research to the point where I *do* need to care about Pogroms, I take a few seconds to decide wether its still worth it to even attempt or not...  Especially when its going to end up at night.

X-Com disabused me of the notion that there is a perfect way to play a game.
Piratez disabused me of the notion that games are built to be won at all :D

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Starting base location
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2016, 08:05:48 pm »
This discussion makes selling the Airbus for an early Aircar seem like a tempting option, just have to be careful with negative point values.  Would dare even less to hit a pogrom, or even a ratman rodeo at that point though.