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Author Topic: Star-Gods in tactical...  (Read 11579 times)

Offline new_civilian

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Star-Gods in tactical...
« on: May 01, 2016, 01:38:14 pm »
Well, do I need to say more than the topic title already does?

I managed to shoot down a small Star-God ship that was on a sway government mission with my new Kraken (equipped with 3 naval guns, harhar). So far so good.
Then I made the mistake of actually sending troops there....

HOLY CRAP!  :o

Opened the door, saw one facing away, threw some smokes first. then mowed him down with my Vulcan RFG gunner standing just in the right position (Deliverator craft btw) and I swear I saw nothing else. Closed the door. SAVED. Ended the turn.

...

Can you imagine an PSI-attack-blizzard? Well that's exactly what happened. I don't know precisely how many gals panicked, went berzerk and were under an evil spell, but it was enough to make me reload the save from above and take off. And those were my strongest VooDoo gals!

For a test I did something else, reloaded the tac mission from the beginning and left the craft.... Or should I say TRIED to leave the craft....?

Well. I have only ONE tip when facing Star Gods: DON'T.

Sadly they established a base close-by some days ago.... I can not even imagine what kind of an hell a mission there would be.....

So. Any tips?

(fwiw I think the difficulty is ABSOLUTELY right, this really is how a fight against a superior alien enemy should be, good work Dioxine)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 08:57:16 pm by new_civilian »

Offline Cristao

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Re: Ouch. Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2016, 05:22:41 pm »
I am waiting for someone to call down the best way to deal with SGs. In my first campaign (on my 3rd), I had to custom build a tougher armor to even the odds. They are not an easy enemy.

Offline new_civilian

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Re: Ouch. Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2016, 05:39:42 pm »
Yes, really NOT easy. In the mission above^ I had hoped to run out in the next turn, grab the dead Star-God, run back and lift-off, but I felt more like I had disturbed a bunch of rabid grizzlies in their cave, so I preferred to simply get out alive with no star-god corpse...

Offline legionof1

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Re: Ouch. Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2016, 09:20:21 pm »
My only real success has been with mass explosives and any mission that starts with any haveing sight into the craft is an instant liftoff. You are much safer trying to find a public enemy from smugglers for the stargods codes. Stargod's are 99% percent invisible(there is one angle where you can see them but its different for every faceing/height combination and even then stuff may not connect properly), can 2 shots most gals since they have 90% armor pen on there attack, and significant psi power(stronger then ive ever seen a gal.)

Offline greattuna

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Re: Ouch. Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2016, 11:24:05 pm »
I haven't met star gods yet, but numbers from wiki say that they're very nasty psionics, especially on higher difficulties. Coordinators have 90+rnd(56) attack strength, for example. On capped stats (60\40) your gal would have only 68 defence, so star gods can terrorize them gals without failure.

Of course, there are psi-defence boosting armours, but they're not absolute protection, sadly.
Assuming capped stats, ragnarok will increase defence to 102, ghost - to 90 (10 power + 2 from skill + 10 from outfit), bio suit - to 98, xeno - 103 (50 from bravery - 15 from loss of power). Other armors give much more minor defence bonuses to my knowledge.

From others' words, their ghost beams appear to ignore armor, forcing to rely on resists only. In that case, I'd prefer to use bio suit gals against them if possible, since: they take only 40% plasma damage, improve psi-defence (but gals are still vulnerable, take care) and regenerate health. Invisibility forces to rely mostly on aoe damage: explosives, flamethrowers etc.

I *may* try to tackle their ships or\and do a quick battle with them to see how much my tactics will work (or not), but I need to prepare.

Offline new_civilian

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Re: Ouch. Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2016, 12:30:48 am »
Some good tips, here, thanks. Still, as I have no psi-boosting armor atm I am better off avoiding them completely, I guess.
My next tac mission is a smuggler ship (landed), maybe I can find a public enemy there.

And yes, their two-shot weapon is something to be afraid of.... Especially as the Star-Gods have good accuracy.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 08:57:31 pm by new_civilian »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Ouch. Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2016, 02:26:40 pm »
I haven't met star gods yet, but numbers from wiki say that they're very nasty psionics, especially on higher difficulties. Coordinators have 90+rnd(56) attack strength, for example. On capped stats (60\40) your gal would have only 68 defence, so star gods can terrorize them gals without failure.

You not only took the max possible value (Coordinator on Jack Sparrow), you also forgot to add distance to your calculations. Distance is basically a flat bonus to Psi Def. So assuming distance 20, the max defense values increase to 88 (no buff), 100 (bikini), >120 (major psi boosting armors). Also, Coordinators are very rare; Operatives have AS 15 or so lower, Novices even worse. The threshold point (0% chance for MC) for an Operative is around 80-100 defense (psi-def + distance), depending on your diff level.
As for the Terror attacks, it is much easier (as if +20 AS), but you're forgetting another factor. At 90 Bravery, a gal can easily take several successful Panic attacks without dropping below 50 Morale.
Also, math aside, from my battle experience, my rule of thumb is that gals of >45 Psi Str are unlikely to be MCed in normal combat situations.

(the actual base stats for Star Gods [power/skill {AS}] are 50/40 {40}, 70/40 {56}, 75/45 {67} - nothing extravagant, dont'cha think? On Jack Sparrow, these top off at 58/46 {53}, 81/46 {74}, 87/52 {90})
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 02:28:23 pm by Dioxine »

Offline new_civilian

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Re: Ouch. Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2016, 02:36:39 pm »
I have to get some psi-boost armor soon I guess, right now I am losing my best gals (60 voodoo power) to evil spells even on comparatively easy enemy hideout missions against human enemies.... This has the side effect of changing my tactics in enemy bases beyond anything I ever did in 20 years: I am going in not only aggressively, but aggressively like a rabid bat out of hell. Mushroom beer in the belt and Vibro Swords between the teeth, take no prisoners!  ;D

Luckily I now have full plate mail (with shields), so my gals can digest a hit or two without dying right away.

Offline legionof1

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Re: Ouch. Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2016, 03:26:51 pm »
Against psi attacks you can also leverage the field of view of units being quite limited, by orienting the gals at the end of the turn such that they dont see one another. Even if you are in close proximity to each other ai tends to waste a fair amount of TU before it ever turns around to check it sides or rear. Smoke helps too  since only visible units are vulnerable to attack. The ai does "rememeber" where units are but moving a few tiles breaks that memory. So staying around corners and being fully out of view at turn end, cuts down psi attacks alot. Much harder to manage with stargods given the invisibility but still can be done.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Ouch. Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2016, 04:45:41 pm »
Proper dispersion and superior numbers do help in general. There might be missions with too many Star Gods present, but it might be simply an error on my part (or just a Jack Sparrow thing! This diff setting is really ridiculous, please remember that!)
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 04:47:26 pm by Dioxine »

Offline legionof1

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Re: Ouch. Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2016, 05:36:09 pm »
in my opinion any mission with more then 15ish actual stargods is a flat out nope. The TU requirements to first pinpoint and then aoe down a given stargod is akin to dealing with a terror unit. The majority of that is just pinpointing them since only one visible angle, playing is this tile occupied is tedious, and aye-phone scans dont pinpoint z height for the flying buggers. And during this flailing about your soaking fire that can 2 shot any gal in anything but a few select armors most of which are quite difficult to manufacture in even small numbers. At least in present mod state(cough gem shortage cough).


Stargods probably account for 80% of my dead and 99% of my injured in my now 7.5 year game. And it looks like I'm gonna be at for another several months at least cause holy hell the building components for the conqueror. This thing is gona need an entire dedicated base just to assemble.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Ouch. Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2016, 09:56:42 pm »
I fully concur that Star Gods' numbers cannot exceed a dozen or so or it stops being fun. That's why I replaced many ranks in the Star God race with Cyclopi, Waspites and Silacoids, and Star God Guardians who aren't psionics. I will look through the deployments again, but omissions do happen.

Offline legionof1

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Re: Ouch. Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2016, 10:25:54 pm »
I've had exactly 2 silacoids in the game. One in pogrom, the other in a hideout defense. And at least from my faffing about in new battle the great majority of units in most ships are either novices or operatives which agrees with my field experience. Cyclopes and waspites are very plentiful on gunships and fighters but notably absent for escorts couriers and envoys. The pogroms/hideout defense are also oddly dispersed. Some times its 99% cyclops other times its pure grey robes. Ive lost 2 bases to the pure greyrobe version since containment is completely impossible in those circumstances. You end up chaseing grey robes through the caverns or the ductwork and pretty soon turn 20 and you will lose to psi at that point.


I have no experience with large stargod craft as after my first escort i said fuck it with ever even trying larger ships. 8 per map is about the limit i can handle with the dedicated to stargod ground team. Even then the injury rate necessitates about a 70 gal pool. I grant this team lacks the best outfits for the problem due to component shortage.

This playthrough im on diff 2 and if each diff up spawn size i would guess at 4 anything with real stargods in it would be off the table of resonable.

Offline new_civilian

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Re: Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2016, 08:42:16 pm »
Got very lucky today and downed 2 Star-God fighters with my Kraken (3 naval guns). In those 2 missions managed to capture 2 Star-Gods alive and also got a robe. Lucky, because the crew of those ships is small AND some of them were dead when I arrived.

Still, it took several stun bombs, Knockout Grenades, Seduction attacks and some gun shots to bring them down and both times I grabbed the corpses/stuff and lifted off as quick as I could, because I could not find the remaining Star God in a hurry. Had some panics but no evil spells...

Had a LOT of luck in those 2 missions, they even were close to my craft doors. RNG was really with me!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 08:56:31 pm by new_civilian »

Offline legionof1

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Re: Star-Gods in tactical...
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2016, 10:40:43 pm »
Lucky bastard ive only ever seen mantids on fighters