aliens

Author Topic: New to XCOM and want some advice  (Read 21929 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 11722
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2016, 01:10:16 am »
Use smoke grenades :)

Offline gunnar123abc

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2016, 05:20:19 am »
Use smoke grenades :)

I just assumed they would be bad, I will try them!

Offline Boltgun

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 257
  • [UTTERANCES]
    • View Profile
    • Piratez let's play
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2016, 12:58:41 pm »
Throw a smoke grenade at the bottom of the ramp and skip the first turn without moving anyone.

Reaction fire is dependent of the units Time Units. Letting the aliens move around for a turn will save your soldiers... maybe... for a turn or two.

Have !!FUN!!.

Offline yrizoud

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1014
    • View Profile
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2016, 04:05:29 pm »
Throw a smoke grenade at the bottom of the ramp and skip the first turn without moving anyone.
If the welcoming party is already watching the skyranger's exit, they can shoot the first soldier who throws a smoke. In this situation, I will drop the first smoke at the feet of the front soldier (level +1), end turn, and cross fingers that the smoke expanded enough below and above to protect from aliens who may be at levels 0 and +2.

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 9091
    • View Profile
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2016, 04:14:27 pm »
first 4 that left the craft got killed instantly the moment they left the craft :)

And that's how it should be... you need to allow them to die... that's why they joined xcom... to fight for the planet and to die for the planet.
Xcom is not RPG, it's a strategy game.

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2016, 05:02:53 pm »
Lol no, they joined to kill aliens, not to die, suicidal maniacs make really bad soldiers :) My opinion is exactly opposite, combat experience is the most valuable commodity for an XCom commander and so, risk has to be minimized in any way possible. Naturally, you have to do it in smart way, there's no sense in losing three soldiers to save one. This holds true for any strategy game, btw. Minimizing losses is paramount. However, if you're too afraid of losses, you will suffer catastrophic losses in the end. And the flying coffin Skyranger was constructed in a way that often makes losses inevitable... :)

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 9091
    • View Profile
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2016, 06:07:51 pm »
It's just my opinion... for (vanilla) xcom.
If a soldier survives more than 20 missions, you're basically playing world of warcraft, not (vanilla) xcom. Or you're reloading every time you get hit by heavy plasma.

I know that some people want xcom to be RPG (see Dioxine's X-PirateZ or hellrazor's Hardmode expansion) and you need to "train your characters to level 60" (or is it 70 now in WoW?) before you attempt to "kill the final boss" (or NPC or whatever they are called now)... I just don't share that view. I can accept it, but with a clear distinction that I am not playing xcom anymore, but (for example) X-Piratez.

In xcom, you hire trained professionals(!), who are almost at their limits... nobody ever increased for example their strength 8-times just by being in combat (from 10 to 80)... actually no one ever increased their strength 8-times, full stop. We choose the best, when fighting for survival.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 06:12:26 pm by Meridian »

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2016, 07:50:16 pm »
Even in vanilla, the stat increases are huge; TU can be almost doubled (45-80); strength almost quadrupled (20 to 70); firing accuracy almost tripled (45 to 120); stamina can be tripled too. It's hard to agree the starting X-Com agents are "the best of the best". Naturally these stat increases can represent getting "battle-savvy", learning how the aliens think and fight, not (only) literally getting stronger and faster. But I digress.
If we removed the RPG-like element, or, actually curbed it to a realistic level (eg. soldiers start with 35-45 strength, 50 is maximum; start with 50-70 TUs, 75 is maximum; start with 65-95 Firing, 100 is maximum) only then we'll have a game you're talking about. Vanilla X-Com is still RPG enough for my advice to be sound, as supersoldiers are really powerful in vanilla and it takes time to exp them.
Alternate solution would be allowing supersoldiers but adding some 'dark side of power' like eg. increasing salaries (say ,+5 k/month per each mission in which soldier gained any exp, premiums for medals), or/and sickbay time caused by accumulating combat stress (the more missions played, the higher chance) etc.
I disagree however that it is impossible for a soldier in vanilla to survive 20 missions, even on Ironman Superhuman. I say that with right tactics and experience, it is quite likely. Aside from the obvious fact that vanilla can be quite easily finished within 20 missions :)
So in short I understand your distaste for supersoldiers, but this is how X-Com works.

not entirelly serious PS. 8-time strength increase? Yes! Strongest humans can lift 300 or more kg; 1/8 th of it is about 40 kg, many would struggle to lift such weight :) And Stamina? Some people run in extended marathons. Some people (even not obese ones) would run for more than 500m only if their life depended on it. :)

Offline davide

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 565
    • View Profile
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2016, 11:25:16 pm »
It's just my opinion... for (vanilla) xcom.
If a soldier survives more than 20 missions, you're basically playing world of warcraft, not (vanilla) xcom. Or you're reloading every time you get hit by heavy plasma.

For some special skilled soldier it could be true...

... instead for some rookies with the backpack full of high explosive ...  ::)

Offline hellrazor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2027
  • Deep Ruleset Digger & Bughunter
    • View Profile
    • Github Account
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2016, 11:11:14 am »
It's just my opinion... for (vanilla) xcom.
If a soldier survives more than 20 missions, you're basically playing world of warcraft, not (vanilla) xcom. Or you're reloading every time you get hit by heavy plasma.

I know that some people want xcom to be RPG (see Dioxine's X-PirateZ or hellrazor's Hardmode expansion) and you need to "train your characters to level 60" (or is it 70 now in WoW?) before you attempt to "kill the final boss" (or NPC or whatever they are called now)... I just don't share that view. I can accept it, but with a clear distinction that I am not playing xcom anymore, but (for example) X-Piratez.

In xcom, you hire trained professionals(!), who are almost at their limits... nobody ever increased for example their strength 8-times just by being in combat (from 10 to 80)... actually no one ever increased their strength 8-times, full stop. We choose the best, when fighting for survival.

I do not see any RPG elements there, for me Soldiers are tools. Tools to deliver death to aliens. Depending on their initial stats, they are fit for a specific role on the battlefield. Once they grow, their role will change and probably the equipment they carry. I usually try to pair soldiers with similar stats together into a 2 man team, which will then operate together. So i will have a Rocket Launcher Team, a Sniper Team, a Grenade Launcher Team, and 2 or 3 Assault Teams, carrying Rifles/Shotguns.
Soldiers in Assault teams are the ones who are most likely to die, since they are the first to leave the craft (after the tank) or to enter UFO's or buildings.
Snipers, Rocketeers and Grenade Launcher Dudes, will level up in their shadows, and become over time what you call "Supersoldiers". But they are no Supersoldiers, they are fully trained Soldiers, and only with fully trained Soldiers X-Com starts to make real fun.
And i designed my lategame enemies especially so that you only can fight them effectivly with really good soldiers, otherwise you will get slaughtered most of the time.

All individuality gets deleted over time, there is no RPG element, there is only the military purpose a soldier can fullfill in form of the role in the team he is carrying out.
Names are irrelevant, just replace the Soldiers name with his current role, if he is carrying a Rocket Launcher, he is "Rocketeer 1" or "Rocketeer 2" etc..
Only the army of Earth Elite Soldier will defeat the aliens for good.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 11:17:08 am by hellrazor »

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2016, 02:51:58 pm »
I have to agree with this - we can take the RPG element out of the equation and it doesn't change any principles. Even Piratez can be played as a purely tactical game, albeit with Commander's role expanded in the logistics and acquisition areas due to the nature of conflict. Yeah the 'personal' part is expanded but forgetting that you're at war will lead to sad consequences. The reasons are obvious - RPGs evolved from tactical games and thus are closely related. Any good RPG needs to be a good tactical game first (see Baldur's Gate). If it isn't, then it's Diablo, so-called "RPG". But I know no X-Com mod which changes the game into some sort of Diablo-style clickfest.

Also please take out the issue of save-load out of this discussion, this doesn't belong here. In some RPGs, the game forces you to load if your main character dies. But even a pure-blooded RPG (albeit without any "main" characters) should allow the player to *not* load a savegame if he loses a battle. So in my opinion it is the same for both RPG and tactical games. In all that I have written here I am assuming that the player uses saves only as a backup against game crash, electricity outage, etc., or for experimental/scientific purposes, not to cheat.

So, in principle, this changes nothing. A dead soldier is an utterly useless soldier, period.

Offline Zyzyfer

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2016, 04:05:41 pm »
My advice to new guy(s) for keeping soldiers alive:

Rush Laser cannon for profit (If playing with mods, you might want to rush motion scanners to make some cash as unlike vanilla it might take you a little longer to reach laser cannon). Early use Laser Rifles on the battle field and rush heavy plasma for snipers but keep with laser rifle for scouts until they max reaction.
I have mods so it takes little longer for plasma weapons so I rush heavy flash rifle instead.
Large rockets for heavies->heavy launcher->blaster launcher=optimal. Grenadier uses HE. (You might want use Ammo mule in early missions to carry extra rockets/HE)

After generally try to rush personal Armour and then medikits once i have laser cannon. Saved me a lot of soldiers (albeit sickbay is always full). Also make sure you have at least one guy with motion scanner on each mission (remember the bigger the blimp on scanner the less TUs the entity has so pay attention to location as well as size of blimp)


I personally like 14 soldier team to start with' you know very soon you will have 14 universal soldiers instead of 10 or 8 etc. I just think soldiers are more valuable than tanks due to exp. But certainly keep a few tanks lying around for base defense & once you have the bigger transporter (use them as scout & don't necessarily have to use their guns too).  ;D

Grenadier + heavies clear buildings by flattening them. Snipers support scouts. Scouts spot aliens (scouts become valuable later on so don't kill them off unnecessarily (albeit the casualty rates of Xcom scouts are among the highest of any of the roles- but every soldier knew what he/she is signing up for).
In my current campaign I already have some of my scouts hitting my cap of 105 reaction ( I am currently in August 1999).

I also aim to equip every soldier with x1 alien grenade x3 smoke grenade x1 medikit (make sure you prime smoke grenade in soldier equip screen while still in your base, that way the game will always remember to auto prime them for you in future). Bare minimum is x1-2 smoke grenades if the soldier is still weakling.

Tactics:
1. Throw Smoke grenade on floor just in front of skyranger ramp, let the aliens have a turn and deploy on turn 2 (make sure you use motion scanner. once available during turn 2 to check if there is any activity around skyranger just prior to deploying on turn 2). If you see any alien out of the skyranger on Turn 1 make sure to kill it! 8) (but to avoid reaction fire have the 2nd row guy throw (here you have to throw NOT drop), a smoke grenade inside the skyranger then shoot away at will).
 
2. After deploying, position your snipers in optimal spots (move them if needed to find that sweet spot). Sweep battlefield with scouts in a circular direction away from skyranger. If a scout spots alien have the sniper neutralise the alien (since snipers are ideally far in the back row it wont provoke reaction fire).
Ensure the scouts have the backing of at-least one sniper. If you need to move the snipers to better position then do so, but then don't move scouts forward that turn (otherwise all you're doing is throwing in bait without the hook).
If a scout comes across an obstacle/building have the heavy team/grenadier clear the building before proceeding further.

3. Always leave 4 TUs at end of scouts turn to drop primed smoke grenade on floor (don't throw the smoke grenade simply drag from shoulder inventory to floor, this way you only use 4TUs). SG will explode upon hitting alien turn button providing cover for your scout.
Never rely on reaction fire unless you have full TUs (*formulae for reaction fire is TUs remaining/maximum TUs * Reaction Stat). So as you can see having full TUs is important to react fire (hence why you'll be using smoke grenades to save your scouts and not reaction fire most of the times). Albeit reaction fire will come in handy as the scouts improve this stat (usually once you start hitting 85+), to blockade/suppress fire.

4. Assaulting Ufos/Bases is risky. This is where most of my casualties come from. Never even think about doing this without at least a motion scanners (optimal weaponry and good soldiers is always handy for alien bases).
As per usual use smoke grenades to provide cover. When dealing with UFOs I usually stay outside (the Aliens just love to rush out). If needed I will assault the UFO, but only to neutralise the last of the aliens once the majority have been neutralised outside UFO.

5. Never do night missions period, they will always certainly end in casualties (as your vision is severely reduced while Aliens can see as if it was day time). If you get a night terror mission just keep locked on the terror mission with interceptors +/- skyranger until day time then assault. If absolutely dead set on assaulting at night flares are a must; don't even think about it without them.


EDIT:

My selection criteria for new recruits (the rest get fired on spot):

Grenadier- 35+ strength; 65+ throwing;
Scout- 50+ reaction; 50+ FA;
Heavy- 35+ str 55+ FA;
Sniper 60+ FA
Ammo Mule (whatever as long as str 35+)


hmmm... I probably missed a few things but that's the grit of it.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 04:56:32 pm by Zyzyfer »

Offline yrizoud

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1014
    • View Profile
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2016, 05:02:26 pm »
XCOM becomes a strategy game only after the first hundred hours of play, and even then, only if you know a lot of the internals that you could never have guessed on your own (such as monthly alien "missions").
You get completely destroyed countless times by new things as you discover them, not because you made a bad decision. for example :
-night missions
-trusting base defense facilities
-cyberdiscs
-thinking all terror missions are supposed to be winnable
-mind control
-chryssalids
-lobstermen
-tasoth commander research
-economy "game over" while you have tons of alien stuff you could sell
-sending all your soldiers against a large UFO, which rushes straight to your undefended base and destroys it

Offline gunnar123abc

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2016, 09:39:56 pm »
Hi guys!

Oh looks like there was quite a debate in here.. Anyway Thank you for all your replies! They will be very helpful!

I am playing on the center difficulty (middle one) because I want to have a challenge when i first play. I understand taking losses and losing, as I said earlier I play games such as Dwarf Fortress before :p


So this is what has happened:

I am learning how to play the game, and learning from mistakes.

First real mistake I was making was forgetting to wait till daytime to attack things :p I am just now fixing that

Second mistake was not priortizing researching new weapons. I ended up having to use rifles for quite a long time (but at least sold pistols cause I assume they are bad). Two terror missions I have been destroyed, with no survivors (I know I should try to get one soldier in skylander to abort mission but oops). Both terror missions involved these flying discs (at least 5 in the second one) I threw rockets and heavy cannons and rifle shots but I must say my casuality rate per disc was pretty high :p Did not survive, but it was close, second one it was 1 vs 1 in the end. I am starting to figure out how to better use time units.

I do not know what these discs are, I tried to use  a stun rod on one but it seemed to only kill it. Can they be captured? (So I can put them in containment and learn what it is, its lore and such?)

My third terror mission was a success, because I finally equipped my troops with laser rifles, 2 medpacks, 2 smoke grenades (and now reading this thread I understand their purpose a bit more), 5 grenades, 10 laser rifles, 2 stun rods, 1 large rocket, 1 heavy cannon (both use high explosive/large rocket), 2 explosive charges. With the laser rifles I had an easier time hitting enemies especially from longer ranges. I don't know how many rocketeers I should have but I only had 2 soldiers capable of carrying rockets at this point, because I have had a casualty rate over ... 70% until that point? lol UFO battles are not beating me though.

I was able to kill the discs this time (although they seemed to explode now when shooting them with laser rifles!) and encountered snake aliens for first time. (up until now I have been encountering aliens that appear as "The Greys"

About the motion scanners, I had two but they were destroyed in first terror mission and two new ones were destroyed in second terror mission, I better make some more. I saw their usefulness when watching yogscast play openxcom

I am now on my fifth terror mission, and it is going very badly. I brought same as third mission, except 1 plasma rifle for my highest ranked. (I just figured out how to use them, and seeing these posts here I can understand when to use them). I havnt tried heavy rifles of any sort yet, because I heard ?laser? rifle was worst gun in game? or maybe it was heavy rifle? or heavy plasma rifle? I don't know

Anyway in this fifth terror mission I encountered new aliens that are black , I killed one and in inventory said something like chrysallid terrorist or something like that. They are destroying me, it seems like anyone they get into melee range they turn into some sort of infected person, and once the infected person is killed another chrysallid comes out. They are taking many many shots to kill. I cannot kill them fast enough! (I have not let time pass long enough to see if these infected persons are dangerous before killing them, I have simply been shooting them)

They are turning all of the civilians into infected, and are rushing towards all my positions, which is not in great position vs melee. I have lost about half of my soldiers now to them, and I see no way to defeat them now. They seem to be able to move very far, so I am not sure I can outrun them

I supose I will get in the skylander and abort mission for this tim e, rather than lose all of my laser rifles and remaining soldiers, and the skylander itself for the third time


Can anyone tell me if these creatures can be captured alive? (hit them with stunrod but didnt put them down, not enough time units to do again, so had to shoot him) or if the flying disc things can be captured (hit one twice with stun rod but it seemed to simply die)? I want to be able to research them to read the lore on them, if the devs put such a thing in. I was able to capture a living sectoid engineer at least, and wanted to try that with other aliens


thanks again for replies as i learn how to play and have FUN

oh and my memory of the events might be off so if anything seems weird then i probably remembered wrong
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 09:42:11 pm by gunnar123abc »

Offline Warboy1982

  • Administrator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
  • Developer
    • View Profile
Re: New to XCOM and want some advice
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2016, 10:26:58 pm »
you CAN capture them, but it's not easy due to the self-destruct mechanism - the mind-control capture option will help towards this end. the best way to get info on them otherwise is to interrogate medics.