aliens

Author Topic: [COMPLETED] Let's play X-PirateZ (182 episodes)  (Read 168611 times)

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #120 on: November 19, 2015, 03:16:20 pm »
Like I said, hammer heroes got killed... so are those who operate alone... ;_;
I have one thing to say - this is mainly hard because it's Enemy Unknown all over again. Ghouls have their weaknesses, you just don't know what they are - because Unknown...
Oh yeah, and there's really little point in catching more than 1 Ghoul (because you need one to fully learn their resistances; the things they have to say beside that? Might be helpful, but it's nothing you can't learn from other sources).

Also, your self-control is impressive.

A song for everyone who took part in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIsv1YOFNys
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 03:49:33 pm by Dioxine »

Offline Boltgun

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 257
  • [UTTERANCES]
    • View Profile
    • Piratez let's play
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #121 on: November 19, 2015, 04:37:05 pm »
I watched Dioxine fall like you see a slasher movie character die, 'Behind you! No! Turn left! Dang it!'.

Yet you are more patient that me when it came to long missions, it looks like you're going to make it. This is much better than my first pogroms whose only redeeming qualities that it was short (and painful).
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 04:39:36 pm by Boltgun »

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #122 on: November 19, 2015, 04:42:55 pm »
I watched Dioxine fall like you see a slasher movie character die, 'Behind you! No! Turn left! Dang it!'.

NEVER operate alone, or this happens, so very true for slasher movies... It was that last white-helmet who survived WP Grenade earlier, and then was ignored. And I've even kept my calm for several turns being in 30-ish/40-ish Morale...

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2488
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #123 on: November 19, 2015, 05:09:09 pm »
Damn! Shotgunned down after such fine flametrower work! ;) That last bandit really did well with his shotgun.. Good points by Dioxine on "support and squad tactics" but you're usually good at that. I'll just add that with melee and short ranged weapons, it is even more difficult to support, so it is even more important to keep gals together. Also, gals can have good reactions compared to enemies (unlike normal XCom). Try to setup ambushes and especially avoid rushing in with a melee weapon and ending up hiding in a spot that hasn't been cleared.

Now, Meridian.. Meridian.. You seem to suffer from "kidnapping addiction" even more than Ivan or I did. So I enjoyed hearing you say "No more prisoners!" in this episode, even though you persisted to use the handles. Some prisoners are worth the life of a gal, or even a few, because they are rare and precious. But not ghouls! Only take prisoners when you can afford to do it safely. This is well past the point where you should shout "NO PITY!! NO REMORSE!! NO FEAR!!" and kill them all ("billhooks and hammer to the back of the head, spit on the corpse, have fun in hell, sucker!" style).

If you want to take many prisoners and they wake up a lot, try to carry their corpses all to the same spot (ideally a corner of the map, or a room where you can stand in the door) and keep a gal with a stunrod to put them back to sleep. It's "elementary XCom" which we all forget because we don't really need it, until we play Piratez.. At least the Ghouls don't have a built in weapon ;) Imagine if Dioxine gave them a clawing in-build melee attack...

Great work with the hammers, and using the beers to complement their high stamina requirement. That is really well done. I just discarded hammers as needing too much stamina. And that last tank that was dealt with much faster than I expected. Of all the weapons to pick back up, the hammer was really the one (seems to work, unlimited ammo when you are running short), not the flamethrowers (doesn't really work, limited ammo). Flamethrowers are pretty good against armored enemies (like the guys with white helmets, they really get their edge against personal armor dudes where other early guns are pretty useless) but if you see a guy in hazmat suit that seems not to care, he probably doesn't
Spoiler:
(and indeed, ghouls are immune to fire)

Gals, especially injured ones, have a hard time aiming or hitting in melee, the saving grace is "melee gun firing". Kaleido Ruby could probably have solved the ghoul problem a lot faster with a few melee homefront rifle autoshots, instead of handles. Also, firing guns is one of the few things in Piratez that doesn't require stamina (indeed, melee, moving and throwing all require stamina, and I think voodoo has some different kind of downside)

In the end, Piratez requires you to watch, learn and adapt:
Really look at your enemies. Dioxine did a great job to match their looks with their stats (hazmat suit = no fire/acid, unarmoured melee = dodge but probably squishy, armored guy = tougher but less dodge). This alone gives you hints to address each, with the proper weapon (guns, guns/explosives and fire/melee, respectively, for the above 3, I'd say). If something doesn't work repeatedly (handles! or fire on ghouls), you need to try something else ;) This is not XCom where you can liberally apply the same force (laser/plasma) on everything and expect it to work.

It feels like tanks should have been the big threat, yet these were taken care of with no fuss (because you looked at the tank and did what was appropriate intuitively: use explosive and high/splash damage weapons), the hobbits didn't pose much of a threat for the same reason: You found a solution (grenades) and applied it repeatedly. But the ghouls.. man the ghouls.. They distracted the hell out of you and did exactly what they are there for: tank a lot of hits and waste your time so that other units (that last f*cking bandit!) can kill the gals.

To end this, a general note: Remember you're a Pirate, not a the valiant protector of Earth. You're in for the quick easy fights, to get the loot and return to the hideout to party. If something is hard, you need to find a way to make it easy, or you need to not do it. If you stick to it, it will hurt you. But you seem to be the kind of guy who wants to "rise to the challenge" and pull through. Sometimes in Piratez, the challenge is recognizing that you're not supposed to be there.

There are situations in Piratez that are designed to hurt, to wound or kill your good gals and set you back, without offering much in exchange. Experienced gals are really awesome units, you need to keep them alive. Not all fight are meant to be fought, because not all fights will be worth it. You need a LOT of good loot to be worth a good gal, even more for many of them. There's no shame in pulling out. There's no cause worth sacrificing the gals life for, no home planet and human society to defend from evil invaders. You're a Pirate, if you're not getting the loot and living to spend it, it's not worth it.

As you said in your comments, it's entertaining to see the player suffer (one of the reason I enjoyed Ivan's LPs: Ivan moments and the suffering they cause + seeing him pull through), and because it's different as most players would just reload. But you're a pirate, if you're suffering, you're not looting the right folks!

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #124 on: November 19, 2015, 05:39:31 pm »
At least the Ghouls don't have a built in weapon ;) Imagine if Dioxine gave them a clawing in-build melee attack...

And evidently too stupid to get their weapons back... Most enemies are smarter :)

The tank got easily defeated since it was nice enough to ride between flamethrower & 2 hammers. Also it's just a poor excuse for a proper tank :)

I think the biggest problem was the setup - no armor, no guns, just raw melee damage. This played to this particular enemy's strengths, as you don't need much raw damage to kill them, but they can defend themselves well above their level against unarmored savages :) In truth this was an enemy meant to be quite easy for someone who took 'traditional' approach to x-com, taking mostly guns+grenades and just a few melee/flame weapons. Well, nothing is easy for a starting party, granted. But if I were evil, I would certainly gloat how you went for savage, brute force and it didn't work :) Lesson is, when going into Unknown, min-maxing can be a grave mistake :)

Tidbit info: in OXCE which Piratez mod is using, you can shoot unconscious enemies with ranged weapons (including hammers). They will be also subject to smoke inhalation, if not immune.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 05:47:57 pm by Dioxine »

Offline ivandogovich

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2381
  • X-Com Afficionado
    • View Profile
    • Ivan Dogovich Youtube
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #125 on: November 19, 2015, 06:11:29 pm »
You Got Dis!! You have come so Far! Fantastic Four Forever!

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 9093
    • View Profile
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #126 on: November 19, 2015, 06:15:02 pm »
Now, Meridian.. Meridian.. You seem to suffer from "kidnapping addiction" even more than Ivan or I did. So I enjoyed hearing you say "No more prisoners!" in this episode, even though you persisted to use the handles. Some prisoners are worth the life of a gal, or even a few, because they are rare and precious. But not ghouls! Only take prisoners when you can afford to do it safely. This is well past the point where you should shout "NO PITY!! NO REMORSE!! NO FEAR!!" and kill them all ("billhooks and hammer to the back of the head, spit on the corpse, have fun in hell, sucker!" style).

Oh come on... if there is an xcom player, who doesn't take prisoners, it's me! I was only convinced by you, Ivan, etc. to do it, because it is supposedly "imperative in PirateZ". Also, you must have noticed I didn't stun anyone... all those ghouls were attacked by deadly weapons and fell unconcious by accident. If they didn't cheat (=regen health), I would never have to use a stun weapon.
Please don't title me with "kidnapping addiction"... I am exactly the opposite.

Tidbit info: in OXCE which Piratez mod is using, you can shoot unconscious enemies with ranged weapons (including hammers). They will be also subject to smoke inhalation, if not immune.

Uhm, how exactly can I do that? Shoot at the ground?

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #127 on: November 19, 2015, 07:18:50 pm »
Uhm, how exactly can I do that? Shoot at the ground?

Yes, precisely.

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2488
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #128 on: November 19, 2015, 10:57:15 pm »
Oh come on... if there is an xcom player, who doesn't take prisoners, it's me! I was only convinced by you, Ivan, etc. to do it, because it is supposedly "imperative in PirateZ". Also, you must have noticed I didn't stun anyone... all those ghouls were attacked by deadly weapons and fell unconcious by accident. If they didn't cheat (=regen health), I would never have to use a stun weapon.
Please don't title me with "kidnapping addiction"... I am exactly the opposite.

Oh, my comment was more of a tease than serious. I didn't mean to annoy you (but I can see how publishing a punishing pogrom, only to be second guessed would be annoying). I apologize for that. Your use of handles to keep them down showed true dedication, even more so as you don't generally care.

A quick "rule of thumb": You can probably afford to only bring back only a few captives from missions for research, if any. Interrogations take a while (especially at the beginning when there are many things to research and not many brainerz). The rest is nice to ransom, but that's not necessary at all. There are only a few "necessary multiple interrogations", usually engineers/pilots/medics and higher levels, not the grunts (grunts do give you interesting insight though, on stuff like personal armor). You can get by with scavenging weapons from enemies and primitive weapons you make for a while. Feel free to dispose of the others. Studying the body of the grunts often results in getting the armor and modifiers page, which is really handy in case you see them again, but it's not necessary.

I used to put a lot of emphasis on captures, but I have toned it down a fair amount in my game now. Why risk the life of the gals when the cells fill up faster than you can empty them usefully? Slaves are mostly a nice bonus and money is nice, but there's a lot of ways to get money.

Dioxine's trick of targeting the tile on which a body lays is a really good way to get rid of extra captives if you happen to stun dangerous/annoying stuff (chryssalids are the quintessential example). It is especially satisfying with a hammer :D
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 11:40:01 pm by Arthanor »

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 9093
    • View Profile
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #129 on: November 21, 2015, 10:08:29 am »
Uhm, how exactly can I do that? Shoot at the ground?

Yes, precisely.

They don't seem to scream when killed on the ground, is that OK or a bug?

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #130 on: November 21, 2015, 12:29:53 pm »
Hmm... not sure. Are you positive they're dead? If so, I guess it's a bug. In actuality, I only know this mechanic works since several times my people died while laying on the ground, hit by stray bullets.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 12:31:36 pm by Dioxine »

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 9093
    • View Profile
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #131 on: November 21, 2015, 12:44:58 pm »
Hmm... not sure. Are you positive they're dead? If so, I guess it's a bug. In actuality, I only know this mechanic works since several times my people died while laying on the ground, hit by stray bullets.

https://youtu.be/0_yNH0fDvTk

Here's a test... there is a small pause after the first hit of the second autoshot... maybe that's where the sound was supposed to be played?

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5455
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #132 on: November 21, 2015, 01:28:20 pm »
Hm, quite possibly you're right. I've also noticed that enemies do not scream when they die out of Fatal Wounds, if they're unconscious (they scream when they burn alive, though, even if unconscious). Maybe if Yankes is reading this, he'll look into the matter. Or maybe it was intended? Reading this, I realize that screaming while unconscious sounds like an oxymoron... otoh it's useful info...

Offline DracoGriffin

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 302
    • View Profile
    • Steam: DracoGriffin
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #133 on: November 21, 2015, 01:52:39 pm »
Just streamed a Base Defense against Star Gods and can confirm hitting unconscious units on the ground with weapon fire CAN kill them but does NOT trigger the death scream.

I was using Super Shooty Gun and auto fire had hit one of the unconscious units on the ground and I noticed morale spiked from 60-70~ range to 100. Not sure what time it was at in the stream though.

Offline Yankes

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3350
    • View Profile
Re: Let's play X-PirateZ [#07] Train Station of Doom
« Reply #134 on: November 21, 2015, 06:11:59 pm »
Its very possible that they can't scream when someone cut they throat outs. Probably only when unit falling game play dying sound.
I think I can add this because of gameplay reasons.