Some stuff

[michal]

Original formats for original data.
New format for replacement / new data.

[Volutar]

if there's no converted sprites/images, it will run converter and create them from original data. if there is converted data already - it will skip converting (exactly for those images which are present), so you will be able to edit them easily without paying much attention on palette limits. Original data still be needed for first conversion and probably some other info like maps/paths.
Which exactly copyright law will be violated if game will be launched without some of original graphics, with "advanced" ones? If it will _require_ for original data (but not really using)?

[Daiky]

there is no need for an external convertor like ufotts. Just have two different loading routines, depending on extension of the file, like it's already the case with SCR files and SPK files. Just need a BMP loader then. You only need to take care the colors you use in your BMP somewhat match colors that are in the xcom palette, otherwise it will take nearest color. And obviously resolution/size needs to fit too.

[Volutar]

Daiky, actually I think it will be better to start with getting rid of palette. Internally game should use 24bit sprites (convert 8bit graphics in realtime while loading), and then make alternative loaders for bmp images with no palette things.

[luke83]

If its possible to mix and match, would it be possible to borrow UFO2000 custom art?

[Volutar]

ufo2000 art.. yes sure. why not. though personally i dislike their custom art. it looks like ugly pixel graphics with outlines

[luke83]

wow your one hard man to please 

[radius75]

the speech about pics in .LBM type?
LBM - Deluxe Paint Image

I prompt the example editor: Pro Motion v6.5 [trial]
for save to *.LBM pic's https://www.cosmigo.com/promotion/index.php

for modified and save to *.FLI animations or .gif  etc. https://www.aseprite.org/

[Amunak]

oh come on why BMP. Thats no improvement over the original format. Can we use PNG? It's small, widespread, it has a nice losless compression and it supports both transparency and translucency (if we wanted to use it in future). You can also choose how to save the png (what pallete to use), etc.

Also... Someone already mentioned it - there's no reason for converting the original data. I think that it would be best to have folder "original" in the data directory where would be all the original resources. Idea is that any other folders would be displayed in a menu ingame and you could chose if you want to have them active (and presumably the order of loading) so that you could have like more "texture packs" or "sound packs". And if some file isn't in these custom-made folders, it would fall back to the original. What do you think? It might be pesky to implement it, but it would add great and simple extensibility to the game.

[moriarty]

just to add another discordant voice  : I actually like the paletted original approach.

why?

because it keeps the style consistent. the same reason why I like the low resolution graphics. right now, because of the limited palette, you are so limited in what you are able to do that almost anything you do will end up looking similar to the original, whether you want it or not. that's not a bad thing.

I fear that as soon as graphics can be 24bit, they will be, with the highly possible result of turning the game into angry fruit salad.

what I'm trying to say is: I'm not claiming to know any general truths, but it might be that people aren't playing the game despite the retro look, but because of it.


that much being said, I'd say that using .png graphics is probably the best idea but I'd still stick with a limited palette (or heavily enforced graphical style guidelines, which is infinitely harder to do )

[Volutar]

radius75, it's not about flis or lbms.
amunak, bmp/tga just because it's easy to write loader even in asm. png requires extra libraries. though it doesn't really matter until it will have alpha channel (there is 32bit tga with alpha).
moriarty, keeping style consistent by cost of limiting art is quite ugly approach. It would be infinitely better to keep style consistent without limiting artists with palette, when you just cannot get colors mixed or toned. Can't you remember luke83's experiments with inventory images, when he had some trouble with gillman toning/shading?

I cannot accept point of view such as "limited and slightly ugly is sweet"

[Daiky]

I agree partly with moriarty that the cartoon look of artwork is a result of using palettes. Artists who draw concept art for a game and need a certain look, use colors from a certain palette.

But they use a limited set of base colors (pencils), not a limited set of shades (how hard or soft you press on a pencil)
So moriarty, you don't need to increase the number of base colors in the xcom palette if you want, but increase the number of shades. This would already give a much better look for gradients on larger surfaces: like the sides of the skyranger.

[moriarty]

using more shades is probably unneccessary unless we also increase resolution (limited pixels available severly limit the gradient necessity ).

and I'd rather not increase resolution, because that makes life for modders a whole lot harder, graphics-wise. right now, because the resolution is so limited, you can leave a whole lot to imagination. as soon as you increase resolution, things will look ugly. it's the uncanny valley in its purest form.

Well, I would like to see xcom in beautiful high resolution, but for that we'd better go and recruit an army of really good artists...   all examples of high resolution graphics I've seen so far were ugly. I think I'd rather avoid that, stay limited, small and blurry. like super mario.

[Daiky]

True, for that you need an increase in resolution, but it was just saying, that increasing colors doesn't mean the arist HAS to use non-xcom colors.
Look at this xcom palette, where I increased the number of shades from 16 to 256 for the two first colors.

It's up to the artist whether he wants to create fruit salad, or high-res cartoony artwork that still fits the xcom palette, but in 256 shades instead of 16...

I think there is a technique called "cel shading" which is used in modern games and animated movies to create this cartoon look, and one of the things it does, is just reducing the colors to a certain palette

[Daiky]

oh, and if you think you NEED a lot of colors, then play this recent amazing platform game LIMBO 

https://darkzero.co.uk/asset/2010/07/Screenshot-9.jpg