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Author Topic: Base Defense Mechanics  (Read 22260 times)

Offline pilot00

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2015, 11:53:11 pm »
Call me silly but I cant understand the problem at hand?

If you want your base to be assulted leave it bare bones and with a security force.
If you want to get past that annoying mission you just build 5 plasma/fussion batteries and a grav shield and you are set. They are not gonna miss that much.
The mind shield depends on wheather they have scouted your base before hand as far as I know, because if they did and you built it afterwards its useless.

Laser and missile defenses seem to be useless either way and the mission itself is only supposed to be an annoyance than actuall danger (I cant remember ever losing a base).

x60mmx

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2015, 01:45:11 am »
It's just the way that the defense section of the game is implemented.  Build a bunch of the best research-able defenses to get any benefit.  Build any of the earlier defenses, or not enough higher defenses and you get nothing.

On a slightly different angle from different UFOs attacking bases option, what if early base attacks were conducted by small and very fast UFOs?  Early attacks could be one or two and carry a small party.  As the game progresses they progress into larger groups of larger UFOs.  Having the invading party split into multiple UFOs would also implement a way for defenses to reduce incoming assault parties.  Say 3 UFOs attack, each carrying 6 aliens and you shoot down one.  12 aliens land.  This way, early defenses like missiles could actually make a difference.   

This could be balanced by the higher defenses having higher build and maintenance costs.  Frugal players who don't mind occassional defense missions could choose to have a laser defense that costs far less than a fusion defense and lightens the attacks, which could save him the money he may lose in casualties from a full attack.  Players who do not want base assaults could pay up for full fusion defenses.  Players in the beginning of the game could build a missile defense and actually feel rewarded for his actions if a small UFO attacks early.  I think it could open up the base defense side of the game quite a bit, as well as base logistics.

This should obviously be an optional mod, but I do think it would be a fantastic one.  If the variables necessary to make it happen were available to edit, I would gladly make it.  Namely which UFOs do which missions.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 10:38:54 am by x60mmx »

Offline redv

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2015, 03:07:59 am »
The best using of base defense is if it could be shoot down UFOs, flying nearby.
At least it will be funny:)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2015, 11:29:21 am »
On a slightly different angle from different UFOs attacking bases option, what if early base attacks were conducted by small and very fast UFOs?  Early attacks could be one or two and carry a small party. As the game progresses they progress into larger groups of larger UFOs.

Sure it would be best, but it's not feasible. You can assign the retaliation run to some other UFO, but the landing party will be the same - you can't define separate deployments for different UFOs.

Having the invading party split into multiple UFOs would also implement a way for defenses to reduce incoming assault parties.  Say 3 UFOs attack, each carrying 6 aliens and you shoot down one.  12 aliens land.  This way, early defenses like missiles could actually make a difference.

It'd be nice too.

This could be balanced by the higher defenses having higher build and maintenance costs.  Frugal players who don't mind occassional defense missions could choose to have a laser defense that costs far less than a fusion defense and lightens the attacks, which could save him the money he may lose in casualties from a full attack.  Players who do not want base assaults could pay up for full fusion defenses.  Players in the beginning of the game could build a missile defense and actually feel rewarded for his actions if a small UFO attacks early.  I think it could open up the base defense side of the game quite a bit, as well as base logistics.

This should obviously be an optional mod, but I do think it would be a fantastic one.  If the variables necessary to make it happen were available to edit, I would gladly make it.  Namely which UFOs do which missions.

As I said, you can assign retal to some other UFO (or a number of them, by making more retal missions), but nothing else.
(I haven't really tried doing this, but I assume it's possible judging from the ruleset.)

x60mmx

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2015, 07:47:23 pm »
So I guess defenses reducing assault parties would be the only viable option, and with Warboy not being into it I guess the defenses will stay as redundancy rich as have been.  Oh well.

Offline pilot00

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2015, 02:23:39 am »
It's just the way that the defense section of the game is implemented.  Build a bunch of the best research-able defenses to get any benefit.  Build any of the earlier defenses, or not enough higher defenses and you get nothing.

On a slightly different angle from different UFOs attacking bases option, what if early base attacks were conducted by small and very fast UFOs?  Early attacks could be one or two and carry a small party.  As the game progresses they progress into larger groups of larger UFOs.  Having the invading party split into multiple UFOs would also implement a way for defenses to reduce incoming assault parties.  Say 3 UFOs attack, each carrying 6 aliens and you shoot down one.  12 aliens land.  This way, early defenses like missiles could actually make a difference.   

This could be balanced by the higher defenses having higher build and maintenance costs.  Frugal players who don't mind occassional defense missions could choose to have a laser defense that costs far less than a fusion defense and lightens the attacks, which could save him the money he may lose in casualties from a full attack.  Players who do not want base assaults could pay up for full fusion defenses.  Players in the beginning of the game could build a missile defense and actually feel rewarded for his actions if a small UFO attacks early.  I think it could open up the base defense side of the game quite a bit, as well as base logistics.

This should obviously be an optional mod, but I do think it would be a fantastic one.  If the variables necessary to make it happen were available to edit, I would gladly make it.  Namely which UFOs do which missions.

I can understand that, but to be honest and assuming things are at least decent I cant see any ufos detecting the base with standing mechanics early on. Making things such as plasma defenses still top tierish (assuming you beeline plasma research). Which is a minor and not that all effective change IMHO.

Offline Jstank

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2015, 04:31:23 am »
I'm going to go throwing wild donuts your way, just be prepared...

Is there some way to trigger the base defense sequence out of a true base attack. For instance. Lets say a small craft does fly over too close to your base, and you actually do have some missile defenses up and running. Now lets say for arguments sake that it will take 2 hits to bring down that UFO before it translates the location of the base to the battleship (it is successful). You are able to shoot this down so the retaliation mission ends up failing. However, if you don't have any defenses the UFO flies harmlessly by AND does succeed and does send a invasion fleet.

Sorry for the food fight, because I don't even know if this is technically feasible.

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2015, 05:54:54 am »
That could be cool.  Very similar to my idea of missile degenses being able to shoot at UFOs.  Only problem is it doesn't really solve the Laser, and to a smaller degree the plasma,  being pointless.

Offline moriarty

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2015, 12:11:25 pm »
just to chime in with an idea I posted a while ago... it would be nice to generally have a mechanic to allow damage to "carry over" from geoscape to battlescape.

the game keeps track of the "damage a UFO takes" anyway, so that could be used to generate an arbitrary amount of damage that is randomly distributed among the aliens inside the UFO at the start of the battle. some would be injured, some would be stunned, some would be killed, depending on the amount of damage the UFO took. this would make base defense facilities useful and add some more believability to UFOs that land after being shot at.

(I'd also extend this to add structural damage to the UFO proportionally to the damage inflicted in the aerial battle, but that's just me...)

Offline Jstank

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2015, 09:52:50 pm »
That could be cool.  Very similar to my idea of missile degenses being able to shoot at UFOs.  Only problem is it doesn't really solve the Laser, and to a smaller degree the plasma,  being pointless.

Nah If you could make it work like that then making all of the defenses useful would be issue of balancing. 2 missile batteries have a 50% chance of shooting down a retaliation mission on a small but one laser defense would take care of a small retaliation mission to 100 % and a large retaliation mission at 50%.

You know just make it so that the larger defenses have a really good chance at shooting smaller ones down and are equal footing with large ones.. scaling ect ect.

Offline redv

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2015, 10:42:59 pm »
Something like that?



This button appears only if the base has base defense.
After activating, the defense trying to shoot down nearby UFOs.
If any UFOs will be shot down by the base defense, this base counted as uncovered by aliens and aliens will send a battleship.

Offline pilot00

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2015, 11:27:40 pm »
^That would be really cool but instead I would value it more if the base detection was based on a % chance that would equal the tottal damage deployed (not hit but activated) against the craft. That is a missile silo would be 5%, 4 silos would be 20%. But now that I think of this, its not perfect either cause, activating 10 missile defenses would equal the detection chance of activating a fusion defense (numbers are random dont take this into account) hm.... I need to think this a bit better.

Also it would make sense not to have the base chance at automatic detection or % detection. But if you use base defenses the game would launch (in a reasonable amount of time lets say 2-5 days?) the scouting part of a retaliation mission in the immediate area. If the UFOs are downed they would dispatch another wave with stronger escorts. And if that fails it should be a battleship squadron. OFC if that fails too then the flag would go down. The area is clearly off limits and the terrans have too strong a defence there. Back to the same old tactics.

Dont ask me though how all these can be made...I just brain storm in 5 minutes here.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 11:29:21 pm by pilot00 »

Offline Align

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2015, 11:30:55 pm »
If any UFOs will be shot down by the base defense, this base counted as uncovered by aliens and aliens will send a battleship.
That seems kind of harsh. I wouldn't use it myself.

x60mmx

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2015, 11:40:41 pm »
Something like that?



This button appears only if the base has base defense.
After activating, the defense trying to shoot down nearby UFOs.
If any UFOs will be shot down by the base defense, this base counted as uncovered by aliens and aliens will send a battleship.

Redv, would you mind linking the file for that mod so I could look at it?  I am thinking of making a defense mod and I could definitely incorporate that, assuming the author is fine with it.  I do think having it flag a retaliation is too harsh.  Assuming the defense ranges weren't too large, aliens scouting for retaliation would already be given a huge leg up in finding your base just by the UFOs getting shot down within a close proximity to your base, instead of wherever your interceptors shot them down which is often far from your base.  I think this alone could balance it out.

Offline redv

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Re: Base Defense Mechanics
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2015, 11:57:07 pm »
Actually it is not a mod. I wrote only 5 strings of code just for this screenshot :)
This is just an concept. At least at the moment ;)