Author Topic: OpenXcom 1.1  (Read 24192 times)

Offline Yankes

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OpenXcom 1.1
« on: December 20, 2014, 03:27:45 pm »
Isn't this time to warp thing up and create new milestone?
Most mods don't work with 1.0 if it work with Nightly and vice versa.
Lot of new stuff was added, and probably recent SupSuper patch (loading original saves) could be "selling point".

Another this is that Warboy is now focusing on TFTD it could introduce breaking changes that break mods (like recent map changes).
New milestone could create new environment for mods authors to work in without worrying about changes in nightly builds.

Offline 54x

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2014, 09:46:44 am »
I'm pretty sure a lot of the discussions about what to use which milestone numbers for included at least partial TFTD support for 1.1.

And if Warboy has to break mods in an upcoming patch, he might as well branch the development for TFTD, and figure out as many things he'll need to break as possible, so he can break them all at once.

Offline volutar

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2014, 10:42:15 am »
It doesn't break mods more than it already did with nightlies. All changes are already going into the master, they are simply unused in Xcom1Rulesets.rul.

Offline Yankes

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2014, 05:14:11 pm »
It doesn't break mods more than it already did with nightlies. All changes are already going into the master, they are simply unused in Xcom1Rulesets.rul.
And that is the problem, many mods depend on specific nightly and when someone upgrade to latest can't go back because old one aren't publicly available.
We have already couple people and mods affect by this.
My point is that current 1.0 is obsolete for mod authors, many great features was added after it. My suggestion is to create alternative that will be protected form breaking changes.

Version of this new milestone is irrelevant. It could be 2.0, 1.1 or 1.0.1, only important is content of it.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2014, 06:22:33 pm »
And that is the problem, many mods depend on specific nightly and when someone upgrade to latest can't go back because old one aren't publicly available.
We have already couple people and mods affect by this.
My point is that current 1.0 is obsolete for mod authors, many great features was added after it. My suggestion is to create alternative that will be protected form breaking changes.

Version of this new milestone is irrelevant. It could be 2.0, 1.1 or 1.0.1, only important is content of it.

At the same time, the more milestone versions get released, the bigger the confusion. And preparing a milestone takes time that could be better used to further development.

If you release a new milestone at this point then it will break a lot of mods, plus it is likely that those mods will need to be updated, again, if something is changed on further nightlies and when TFTD gets finished. So for some mods you'll need 1.0, others 1.1, and then there will still be mods that only work with the latest nightly.

My point is that current 1.0 is obsolete for mod authors, many great features was added after it. My suggestion is to create alternative that will be protected form breaking changes.

1.0 is completely fine for me regarding the Terrain Pack and for a lot of other mods. I've made a deliberate decision of keeping the updates to my mods compliant with 1.0 due to a number of reasons:
* Most players won't care about downloading a nightly just to try a new feature.
* It can take a lot of time to be constantly updating a mod that requires a nightly.
* And the new nightly features required by mods have a minimal impact in the overall game, despite what we mod authors would like to believe :)

So, if you choose to use nightly features in your mods, keep in mind that you'll have to deal with the above points.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 06:24:27 pm by Hobbes »

Offline volutar

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2014, 06:40:58 pm »
And that is the problem, many mods depend on specific nightly and when someone upgrade to latest can't go back because old one aren't publicly available.
Really, mods are tertiary in this respect. Breaking someone's mod shouldn't care developers or stop of making necessary changes. Why should it?
Xcom1 support and bug-less matters. TFTD support and bug-less matters. Everything else is pretty much irrelevant.

You can stick with your mods to obsolete 1.0 version, or constantly update your mod to work with nightly (because nightly is "almost-final"), or go both ways, if you don't mind wasting time on 1.0. Thing is, in the end mods for 1.0 will simply be updated to nightly.
There's no point to support 1.0. Any bug reports considering 1.0 are actually ignored long time. In the fact it's the past.
And I would suggest anyone update mod version to work with nightly, and drop 1.0 support (Frankly, most of mods aren't even broken). There's good point not to live in the past.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 06:48:50 pm by volutar »

Offline Yankes

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2014, 08:48:58 pm »
volutar you didn't get my point. I want exactly that, drop 1.0 as "official" current version and introduce new one that have all features from toady nightly.
Because of current focus on TFTD most modders could focus on this new version.

And I don't propose any change to how nightly work, it break mods and this is fine, but I think it would be good if most of features from toady nightly could be available in more stable environment.

And lastly as you point out, current 1.0 is bugged, maybe It should be updated by bugfixed one? :)

Overall it won't be bad if we don't have new version until full TFTD support is implemented, but I think it would be more healthy for community if we have new milestone available.


Offline volutar

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2014, 09:13:10 pm »
Yankes, 1.1 version, besides obvious gameplay fixes and patches, and tftd supporting things, should also include noticeable amount of "quality of life" things, to be much more attractive than 1.0. And there are not much of them right now. Need some more. And then, perhaps, new milestone will popup. I guess it will be first months of 2015.

Offline 54x

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2014, 08:49:04 am »
Yankes, 1.1 version, besides obvious gameplay fixes and patches, and tftd supporting things, should also include noticeable amount of "quality of life" things, to be much more attractive than 1.0. And there are not much of them right now. Need some more. And then, perhaps, new milestone will popup. I guess it will be first months of 2015.

What urgent QoL changes do we need for 1.1? Really QoL changes can be added at any point that we're NOT trying to lock down bugs and create a milestone build.

Offline volutar

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2014, 09:41:52 am »
Obviously bugs are pretty well known, and only couple of them left and to be fixed.
QoL things - offscreen walking (under panel walking) and primed grenade indecator in battlescape (not only in inventory). Pretty much that's it.

Offline BlackLibrary

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2014, 10:51:45 pm »
You know...you don't need a blessing from above to have a stable point.

Start a thread and simply come to an agreement on which nightly is a good endpoint.  Once divined, consider that version OpenXcom 1.1.  Thats the version everyone considers plateau if they so choose.  Put a link of it on the mod site.  Mention it in the download of your mod.  Etc.

IMO, asking the Vactican to give you a new Pope is going to be a small exercise of frustration. 


Offline darkestaxe

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2015, 01:11:01 pm »
You know...you don't need a blessing from above to have a stable point.

Start a thread and simply come to an agreement on which nightly is a good endpoint.  Once divined, consider that version OpenXcom 1.1.  Thats the version everyone considers plateau if they so choose.  Put a link of it on the mod site.  Mention it in the download of your mod.  Etc.

IMO, asking the Vactican to give you a new Pope is going to be a small exercise of frustration.

 :o, Supsuper does not tolerate child molestation in the openxcom team!

More seriously it seems like a worthwhile idea:
1. Grab the latest nightly and fork it.
2. Link it in a forum post and on the mod site as 1.1.0
3. Address any serious bugs that arise in the forked version as versions 1.1.1 - 1.1.5 etc
4. Label mods as 1.1.x compatible until the Scooby Gang releases 1.2.0 with TFTD support.

That way Warboy and Supsuper can continue whatever it is they're doing and not get blamed if anything goes awry. I'd do it myself but a) github confuses me because I'm not a real programmer so even if I managed to fork a nightly I probably wouldn't be able to rebuild it if after any bug fixes, and b) I don't follow OXC stuff reliably, modders/players would need someone that checks their inbox more then twice a month in case a link breaks or something.

Offline kikimoristan

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2015, 04:30:02 pm »
Mods are NICE but they can be updated to match the current release. Is not a big deal. Just a few rul changes probably. I think devs should do what they be doing making the engine better and not have to worry about breaking mods. Right now for me at least TFTD support would be major improvement be more like version 2 than 1.1. 

Offline SupSuper

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2015, 06:48:24 pm »
We've given up on 1.1 because:

- Everyone is waiting on TFTD. Everyone. Nobody cares about little fixes and improvements, we've gotten much more requests about TFTD than issues in the bug tracker in the last year. Everyone wants the shinies.

- Modders keep attaching themselves to the latest nightly, which triggers more fixes and requests, which makes the "stable" constantly shift forward. Everyone wants the shinies.

So for us, trying to reach stability is pointless. You've forced our hand, it's full speed ahead until TFTD (2.0). There will probably be a pre-2.0 to iron everything out but that's it. If you wanna pick a "nightly" to stick to, feel free.

Offline volutar

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Re: OpenXcom 1.1
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2015, 09:12:33 pm »
Foolish decision.
SupSuper, your problem is care not for the game, but for the community.