aliens

Author Topic: Questions!  (Read 5070 times)

Offline Rodi

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Questions!
« on: August 13, 2014, 08:14:13 pm »
Hello, and thank you for the wonderful project first of all!

I was wondering if we had a wiki of sorts that could help aspiring people who want to make mods, do so.

I know very nothing but a little lsl (lol >.<), but I do take to programming and find it fun.

With that in mind:
What I'd like to do is set up a mod that is a lot like armory, but with a few more tweaks and make the game take longer.

So if I could get guidance on how to (just a 'few' things)
Set up research trees (i.e. This project requires this project(s) to be completed first)
Set up manufacturerable items (including items that take items, yo dawg)
Set Research hours needed to complete a project and engineer hours to make an object
Create new research projects that result in manufacturing items
Have research consume certain items/aliens to be completable/initiated
Make UFOpedia entries


I realize these are big questions, so even just some general (or if a modder is willing to share like what/how they did one of those) this would help me, as I'd love to make a sort of 'long war' that makes X-Com even more like world war 3 (brutal, long, but fantastic technologies implemented later)

Thank you for the time and reading this! ^_^



Offline yrizoud

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Re: Questions!
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2014, 08:23:22 pm »
Docs:
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Rulesets_%28OpenXcom%29
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Ruleset_Reference_%28OpenXcom%29

Don't hesitate to study other people's mods - especially small mods, it's easier to understand.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Questions!
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2014, 09:15:40 pm »
Hi Rodi,

Welcome to the modding community. For starting, I suggest you download a few mods and look into the code (the ruleset) to see how they do things. It is (relatively) straightforward and having an example is the best starting point. The UFOPaedia links are also very helpful, but I only knew how to take advantage of the information after I got started modding.

If you decide to get into a project all your own, make a topic, ask questions and you will find people willing to help. There are quite a few really good modders around, willing to help us get started.

As an aside, your project sounds a lot like what I am trying to do in the XCom Armoury Expanded. It has overgrown its original planning and needs a good deal of cleanup to make it modular again (it is supposed to be fully customizable to give everyone the experience they want, but right now it doesn't do that), and there are a lot of things I could use help with (or designing your own features that would be intended to mesh with the core architecture of the mod). No pressure though ;)

Offline Rodi

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Re: Questions!
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2014, 11:57:06 pm »
Well, thank you for the responses, I kinda did some notepading on what I'd like to do, so big old wall of text inc.

And yeah, it was kinda like armory, but my big thing was like, I want an improved viper canon, more dependency on earth based weapons (alien alloy ammo), and better carriers (WTB 10-12 soldiers up top with side and back exits with 3 HWP on bottom plox).  And also make the game take longer and focus on research, production, training the troops like a grand old war.

Wall of dreams (Oh, and there was more like the alien examination/reproduction stuff giving you even better medbays till capping out at reducing injury time at 75%/80% reduction:

New Starting Facilities
Physical Training Area - Start with.  Improves Time Units, Stamina, Strength.  Much like psi lab, one training at a time. 250,000 to build and 20 days to build
Firing Range - Start with.  Improved Accuracy, Reactions, Throwing Accuracy. Much like psi lab, one training at a time. 250,000 to build and 20 days to build
Medical Facility - start with, Reduce recovery time by 25%. 500,000 and 25 days to build.

New Starting Items:
From armory and other mods, mostly unchanged:
Light Minigun
Grenade Launcher
Minigun
Viper Canon
Sniper Rifle, Ignores Range Penalty
Light Machine Gun
Machine Pistol
Shotgun
Flamethrower
Kevlar Vest
Full Body Armor

Research Tree:

-MedKit - 25,000 Research hours needed
   V
Improved Medical Bay - Reduce Recovery time by 40% - 15,000 research hours needed. 600,000 and 20 days to build.


-Motion Scanner 17,500 Research hours needed

-Improved Interception Craft - 50,000 research hours needed
   Raven, Produced, no rent, no alloys needed.  12,000 Engineer hours, 250,000 needed.
   Retaliator, Produced, no rent, no alloys needed. 12,000 Engineer hours, 250,000 needed.
   Sentinal,  Produced, no rent, no alloys needed 25,000 Engineer hours, 500,000 needed.

-Improved Transport Craft 50,000 research hours needed
   New Craft, Up to 16 Soliders, 0 HWP. Back exit only.  Fast craft, moderate fuel capacity. Produced, no rent, no alloys needed. 20,000 Engineer hours, 400,000 needed.
   New Craft, Up to 18 Soliders. 2 HWP. Back and side exits.  Medium Speed, large Fuel Capacity. Produced, no rent, no alloys needed. 25,000 Engineer hours, 600,000 needed.
   New Craft, up to 22 Soliders. 3 HWP. Back and Side Exits. Up to 3 HWP deployed on bottom if present.  Slow as Frack, Extra Large fuel capacity. Produced, no rent, no alloys needed.  75,000 Engineer hours, 1500,000 needed.

-Laser weapons - 24,000 Research Hours needed
      v
    Laser Pistol - 25,000 Research Hours needed
      v
    Laser Rifle - 30,000 Research Hours needed
      v
    Heavy Laser - 40,000 Research Hours needed (Will use improved heavy laser format)
      v
    Scatter Laser - 40,000 Research Hours needed
      v
    Laser Canon - 20,000 Research Hours needed, HWP Can be built
      v
    Laser Defenses, 20,000 research Hours needed
      v
    Laser Weapon Mastery, 75,000 research hours
         v
      Laser Rifle MK II - Requires Advanced UFO Computers to research.  Consumes 5 Laser Rifles, 5 Advanced UFO Computers, 5000 Research hours. Improved accuracy, damage and Ignores Range Penalty for shots. 50,000 Research hours needed.
      Heavy Laser MK II - Requires Advanced UFO Computers to research.  Consumes 5 Heavy Lasers, 5 advanced UFO Computers, 10000 research hours.  Improved accuracy, damage and Ignores Range Penalty for shots. 50,000 Research hours needed.
      Scatter Laser MK II - Requires Advanced UFO Computers to research. Consumes 5 Scatter Lasers, 5 Advanced UFO Computers, 10000 research hours. Improved accuracy, damage and Ignores Range Penalty for shots. 50,000 Research hours needed.

-Gauss weapons - 15,000 Research Hours needed
      v
   Gauss Pistol - 12,500 Research Hours needed
      v
   Gauss Rifle - 20,000 Research Hours needed
      v
   Heavy Gauss - 25,000 Research Hours needed
      v
   Guass Cannon - 30,000 research hours needed
      v
   Gauss Sniper Rifle, 40,000 Research hours needed, Ignores Range Penalty for shots
      v
   Gauss Weapon Mastery -Requires Elerium 115 to be researched. Heat issues overcome. 50,000 Research Hours needed
         V
      Gauss Rifle MKII - Adds autoshot, 25,000 research hours needed
      Heavy Gauss MKII - Adds autoshot, 25,000 research hours needed
      Gauss Sniper Rifle MKII - Improved damage, accuracy and ignores range penalty for shots.  25,000 research hours needed.


-Plasma Weapons - Requires Elerium 115 Gauss Weapon Mastery, Laser Weapon Mastery to be researched.  60,000 Research hours needed.
      V
   Plasma Pistol Workings - Consumes 5 Plasma Pistol, 10 Plasma Pistol clip to research.  30,000 research hours needed. Allows Production of Plasma Pistol and Clips.
      v
   Plasma Pistol Use - Consumes 10 Plasma Pistol, 20 Plasma Pistol Clip to research. 10,000 research hours needed.  Allows use of Plasma Pistol.
      v
   Plasma Caster workings - Consumes 5 Plasma Caster, 10 Plasma caster clip to research. 40,000 research hours needed.  Allows Production of Plasma Caster and Clips
      v
   Plasma Caster Use - Consumes 15 Plasma Caster, 45 plasma caster clip to research.  20,000 research hours needed.  Allows use of plasma Caster.
      v
   Plasma Rifle Workings - Consumes 10 Plasma Rifle, 20 plasma rifle clip to research. 60,000 research hours needed.  Allows production of Plasma rifle and Clips.
      v
   Plasma Rifle Use - Consumes 20 Plasma Rifle, 40 plasma rifle clip to research.  30,000 research hours needed.  Allows use of Plasma Rifle.
      V
   Plasma Sniper Rifle Workings - Consumes 5 Plasma Sniper Rifle, 10 Plasma Sniper Rifle Clip to research.  75,000 research hours needed.  Allows Production of Plasma Sniper Rifles and clips.
      v
   Plasma Sniper Rifle Use - Consumes 10 Plasma Sniper Rifle, 15 Plasma Sniper Rifle Clip consumed to research. 40,000 research hours needed.  Allows use Plasma Sniper Rifles. Ignores Range penalty.
      v
   Heavy Plasma Workings - Consumes 40 Heavy Plasma, 40 heavy plasma clip to research.  100,000 Research Hours needed.  Allows production of Heavy Plasma and Clips.
      v
   Heavy Plasma Use - Consumes 60 heavy Plasma, 60 heavy plasma clip  to research.   75,000 Research Hours needed.  Allows Use of Heavy Plasma.
      V
   Plasma Blaster Workings - Consumes 20 Plasma Blaster, 10 plasma blaster clip to research.  65,000 Research Hours needed.  Allows Production of Plasma Blaster and Clips.
      V
   Plasma Blaster Use - Consumes 5 Plasma Blaster, 5 plasma blaster clip to research. 120,000 Research Hours needed.  Allows use of Plasma Blaster.
      V
   Fusion Torch Consumes 100 Ellerium, 250 Alloys.  40,000 hours to research
      v
    Fusion Torch Power Cell,  Consumes 50 ellerium 100 alloys 7,500 hours to research
      V
    Plasma Weapon Mastery
         V   
      Plasma Caster MK II - Requires Advanced UFO Computers to research. Consumes 5 Plasma Caster, 5 plasma caster clip  5 Advanced UFO Computers to research.  Adds damage and explosion effect on impacts.
      Plasma Rifle MK II - Requires Advanced UFO Computers to research.  Consumes 10 Plasma Rifle, 20 plasma rifle clip 5 Advanced UFO Computers  to research.  Adds Damage, Accuracy and removes range penalty.
      Plasma Sniper Rifle MK II - Requires Advanced UFO Computers to research.   Consumes 10 Plasma Sniper Rifle, 15 Plasma Sniper Rifle Clip 5 Advanced UFO Computers to research.  Adds Autofire.
      Heavy Plasma MK II - Requires Advanced UFO Computers to research. Consumes 5 Heavy Plasma, 5 Heavy Plasma Clip 5 Advanced UFO Computers consumed.  Adds Damage, Accuracy and removes range penalty.


-UFO Parts
      V
   Ellerium 115 - 20 Ellerium
   Alien Alloys - 100 alloys
      V
    - Improved Conventional Ammo - 100 Alloys
    - Improved Carriers(Undecided), 200 alloys
    - Improved Interceptors (Thunderstorm), 200 alloys

UFO Navigation - Requires Alien Alloys, UFO Power Source
   -Advanced UFO Computers, Requires 25 UFO Navivation.  Tiny supercomputers, next generation of computing, massive step for humanity

UFO Power Source - Requires Ellerium 115

UFO Construction - Requires Ellerium 115, Alien Alloys, UFO Navigation, UFO Power Source
   -To be decided on craft development

Armor
-Starter
   Vests
   Body Armor
-Alien Alloys
   -Personal Armor
      -Personal Armor Varients
-Alien Alloys, Ellerium 115
   -Power Armor
      -Power Armor MK II - Requires Alien Alloys, Ellerium 115, Advanced UFO Computers
   -Flying Armor - Requires Alien Alloys, Ellerium 115, UFO Navigation

Fusion Weapons - Requires Laser Weapon Mastery, Plasma Weapon Mastery, Gauss Weapon Mastery  WIP.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Questions!
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2014, 01:13:51 am »
wow that's a lot!

First just a note: research times are in days, not hours. At first, when I thought you were talking in the regular "research units" I was really puzzled. 50k would be 1000 days with 50 scientists, or only a bit less than a year for 150. Still, 50k research hours is ~14 days for a medkit with 150 scientists, which you won't have at the beginning of the game. That's a really slow start. If you want to go that route from the beginning, you need to provide better starting equipment.

New starting facilities: Sadly, the training ones are not supported by the core code. There is specific instructions for a psilab, but nothing for other training facilities. Same goes with the medical stuff, it has been an idea for many of us, but it is not supported.

New starting items:
Some of those are already in the XAE, others you can find in other mods. It's all possible (and could all be supported in v0.9 of the XAE)

Research:
Definitely doable and relatively easy to achieve given current mods.

There's some good potential here! And I sense lots of energy too. Keep it up!

Offline Rodi

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Re: Questions!
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2014, 02:32:59 am »
Yeah, I was thinking in terms of 1 scientist working 1 hour is one unit of research, so, yes, research is slow to encourage multiple bases with labs running :)  So we just divide the figures by 24! ^_^

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Questions!
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2014, 02:42:59 am »
Your scientists work 24 hours a day?! I thought I was doing pretty well with 10! ;)

It's good to have an idea of the numbers before starting (especially to establish how things work relative to a reference), but the real test is in the game, seeing how people experience it. Although the concept should be well defined when getting started, it's easier to consider the numbers as things to be tweaked to obtain the desired result.

In other words: Enjoy getting into the code! :)

Offline Rodi

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Re: Questions!
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2014, 07:45:38 am »
Your scientists work 24 hours a day?! I thought I was doing pretty well with 10! ;)


Well, my engineers do....

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Questions!
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2014, 09:46:40 am »
Fair enough..! :D

For 50k/month (or 60k/month for scientists), they really should work 24 hours a day! or, really, that's more than enough to pay for 3 engineers/scientists and have them work in 8 hours shifts. How they manage the living quarters though.. Good thing we don't have to micromanage that! ;)