Author Topic: SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.  (Read 4187 times)

Offline Dioxine

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SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.
« on: August 11, 2014, 01:11:22 am »
There are many nice shield models on the site. There are various energy shield in other games. But implementing shields is an old problem. The main part of it is how to track soldier's stats when the shield is dropped, picked up etc. Having thought about it for some time, I came up with a solution which doesn't need any soldier stat modifications at all, nor any new types of numbers to track. For me it seems logical enough but maybe it can be perfected further.

This shield requires a new battletype (12?), to communicate the game that the Ammo parameter isn't used for shooting but for tracking shield's hitpoints.

Mechanics: if an unit is hit, shield routine kicks in. The game prepares a list of shields the unit has. The shields are calculated one after next. If all shields have been calculated, the remaining damage is returned (and hits the unit as normal).

New ruleset Parametres:

shieldType: (1..3)
#This line determines how the shield behaves.
#1: Osmotic: Good for simulating energy shields. Hits reduce the shield value until it is spent, but some damage may seep through. The game checks Resistance parameter of the shield item regarding to the damage that has been dealt. The % of the damage, equal to % resistance to that 'element' reduces shield's HP (ammo); the rest is returned. If the hitpoints run out, the missing number is added to the number returned as well.
#2: Deflection: Good for simulating melee shields and "invulnerable saves". It either stops all damage, or lets all damage through, depending on the dice roll. Again, the Resistance parameter is checked, but this time a percentile dice is rolled. If the rolled number is equal or below the resistance in question, ALL damage goes to shield's HP. Else, ALL damage is returned.
#3. Solid: Good for combat shields, but the shieldDT normally needs to be defined as well. Ignores Shield's Resistances. 10% the damage taken reduces shield's HP (the bullet penetrates the shield & damages it somewhat). The rest is returned.

shieldDT
#"Armor" of a shield. Decreases the initial damage by a number equal to shieldDT times shield's % resistance to that type of attack (shieldDT works less efficiently against attacks it wasn't designed to protect against).

resistances:
-
-
-
#as with an armor, % resistances to damage types. How they affect the unit is determined by the ShieldType.

shieldInventorySlots:
#Inventory slots where the shield needs to be put to work. Ex. you need to grab a Combat Shield in your hand else it's just dead weight. You need to keep force belt on your, well, waist else it won't work. Etc. Else the routine ignores the item.

frontCoef
sideCoef
backCoef
bottomCoef
#Percentage values (100 by default). If the unit is hit from an angle where Coef !=100, the Resistance & shieldDT are reduced accordingly before going further (ex. a combat shield protects from the front fully, from the sides a bit, from the back not at all).

Playing with all these values (and allowing shields to take clips, like firearms, if the modder wants to), would, in my belief, allow to mod in any kind of shield, from a combat shield, to energy shield, to medieval shields and so on, some requiring clips, some not etc.

Offline Ran

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Re: SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2014, 09:47:08 pm »
Sounds good, I support this. Shields are a great addition.
But we'd need someone to write the code. :-\

Offline Hollow_Fang

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Re: SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2014, 10:10:15 am »
Was just thinking about shields but for the UFO's that are larger.

Offline Duke_Falcon

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Re: SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2014, 12:06:17 pm »
Shields are good idea and have many tactical\strategic possibilities. And they may have both person-portable and craft-level variants...
But it could be silly for shields to protect from every kind of damage! In mostly in physics kinetic and energy needs different type of shields. It means more coding and trigger the problem that new weapons may appear what able to hit through shields! And there is the melee issue. For example chryssalids...
And psi-shields?

Way to much extension, possibilities for yet. And it also need tremendous rebalance, testing, rebalance... It not just about coding it but to test with them every aspect of the game in more than one possibilities and set-ups. It need to clarify how many shields do what against what before start the real work. But true, it is an awesomely good idea and like it.

Offline yrizoud

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Re: SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2014, 02:32:14 pm »
IMO, shields that act like armor (automatically reduce and/or suppress damage) don't bring anything new from a tactical/game standpoint.
But if you mean shields that need to be voluntarily activated, have a very short duration and/or can't be used while moving, now we're getting somewhere.
For example, relying on the existing tile system of OpenXCOM, shields could actually create a vertical wall tile in the map, which lasts for a handful of turns (unless destroyed early). Shield wall, anyone?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2014, 05:47:53 pm »
I don't personally think shields don't bring anything, because it gives you additional options of combining armour and shield for maximum protection profile (possibly gamebreaking, heh heh). But I also think force walls/domes are WAY COOL. :)

Offline Harald_Gray

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Re: SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2014, 07:13:24 pm »
Shields would definitely give more options to modders.

One of the things they could do is provide some buffer hitpoints. I know, that might make the game easier, but a shield worth 20 HP might be the difference between a dead soldier and a wounded one, or between a barely hurt soldier who just lost his shield and one who took 21 damage and will spend three weeks recovering.

Offline Edrick

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Re: SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2014, 05:14:19 pm »
Well, I support the shield idea. Many, many possibilities.
And, come to think of it, lasguns, plas(tas)teel, shields, somebody around here is a big fan of Dune?

Offline HelmetHair

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Re: SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2014, 11:47:38 pm »
I want a big heavy swat type shield made out of nice thick Alien alloys for when I breach and clear a UFO.

I want to breach, run my first guy in for reaction fire and then the rest of my squad eat their lunch.

-HH

Offline new_civilian

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Re: SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2014, 01:45:05 pm »
IMO, shields that act like armor (automatically reduce and/or suppress damage) don't bring anything new from a tactical/game standpoint.
But if you mean shields that need to be voluntarily activated, have a very short duration and/or can't be used while moving, now we're getting somewhere.
For example, relying on the existing tile system of OpenXCOM, shields could actually create a vertical wall tile in the map, which lasts for a handful of turns (unless destroyed early). Shield wall, anyone?

Yrizoud is right, they will not change the game much, especially if done wrong AND they got to have limitations (talking about personal shields here) otherwise they are simply bonus armor that makes the game even easier than it already is. Take the shields in X-Com Apocalypse for example: The player is able to carry multiple of those and switch them endlessly, basically turning the game into a Inventory-Tetris with invincible units.

They have to be big, bulky, handicap your player OR they should be only strong enough to deal with one hit. And not rechargable during the tac game, please! If that is considered and applied: Yes, add them, they make the game even more interesting. If not, then they aren't worth the effort.

Offline BBHood217

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Re: SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2014, 03:38:41 pm »
Can something like the shields in Xenonauts be done?  Those are wielded in one hand (which means the other hand is stuck with one-handed weapons like pistols), have a set number of HP before being destroyed, and can always block frontal attacks (but side attacks might still get through, and back attacks always get through); but they were also heavy and do not fit in your backpack at all so they're always held.  Soldiers with shields helped in breaching UFOs with less chances of dying horribly in that game.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 03:40:35 pm by BBHood217 »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2014, 06:53:29 pm »
They have to be big, bulky, handicap your player OR they should be only strong enough to deal with one hit. And not rechargable during the tac game, please! If that is considered and applied: Yes, add them, they make the game even more interesting. If not, then they aren't worth the effort.

These things are up to a modder to decide. If you give modders an option, it's kind of obvious many bad mods will be made. If you don't, well, then you can be 100% sure no good mods will be made.

Offline new_civilian

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Re: SHIELDS. A new take on the old problem.
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2014, 11:40:48 am »
My post was meant for the modders, not for the coders, Dioxine.  :)
As you said, they have to decide, Yrizoud (and me) were only giving tipps/opinions for them.