Author Topic: Armoured cilivans?  (Read 12773 times)

Offline Recruit69

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Armoured cilivans?
« on: August 07, 2014, 11:29:37 pm »
As months go on, the population becomes very wary of the dangers that aliens pose. So as months go on, a greater % of civilians would be wearing, say, simple armour vests, when aliens come terrorising their city?

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2014, 11:37:24 pm »
Hmmm... interesting concept... yet as it would play out, that minimal amount of armor would not really do anything to protect them.  It hardly protects XCom.  (i.e. Tactical Armor mods).
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 11:40:29 pm by ivandogovich »

Offline Arpia

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2014, 11:39:12 pm »
Armed civilians I understand sure. but armoured? dont know, i think that's a stretch. and besides, lets say the governments of the world does issue ballistic vests, what good would it do against plasma that xcom can barely survive with custom alloy armour

Offline Recruit69

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2014, 12:12:39 am »
Better than none, i.e. what about "security" guards or "police" who happens to be in the area?

Offline Harald_Gray

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2014, 12:15:42 am »
Well, if it ever gets to redoing the way civilians work in the game, I can definitely see armored civilians.

For starters, police are, not to put too fine a point on it, civilians. And a policeman wearing light armor definitely makes sense.

Another thing is, I live in a European country and yet, I do know people whose stash outclasses your average street cop. Say class IIIA body armor, MICH, sporting/hunting/sniper rifle. All of it perfectly legal. And that's today. How many people would buy weapons and ammo once the general public learns that alien hordes sometimes descend upon one's city?

Offline Deskulpa

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2014, 12:22:49 am »
Test the civilian with armor, but I don't think will help them.

Rich Civilians
The alien target a very rich civilian population.

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2014, 12:45:29 am »
Guys, you're forgetting something that is quite set in the canon: this is a secret war. Not only the government won't issue anything, civilans themselves know nothing of the impending danger, expect some alien looneys of course (who are probably on the roll because of all these strange accidents around the world).

Another thing is, I live in a European country and yet, I do know people whose stash outclasses your average street cop.

Norway or Switzerland? :)

I live in Poland and I've never met a person who legally possesses anything more serious than an airgun. And I do know some gun freaks.

Offline Harald_Gray

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2014, 01:58:35 am »
Norway or Switzerland? :)

I live in Poland and I've never met a person who legally possesses anything more serious than an airgun. And I do know some gun freaks.

Just south of you - Czech Republic.

As for it being a secret war, well, I can believe that in the beginning. But once a terror ship hits, say, New York? There's only so much that you can hush up.

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2014, 02:43:23 am »
People may need a bit of time to react :
https://i.imgur.com/lTMjSnu.gif

Offline Harald_Gray

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2014, 10:06:00 am »
I tend to build my first base in the middle east or north africa, so my flight time to New York is what it is. So I'd say that a bunch of sectoids and cyberdiscs roaming the streets for a couple of hours, killing people and blowing stuff up would give the locals plenty of time to react.

Now, I do know that this is a game and I've heard the phrase "suspension of disbelief". I have no problem with this. But if we were to talk about realism, the war would go public pretty soon.

Offline pkrcel

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2014, 11:05:34 am »
Realism has no place here, this is a cross-SF-Cyberpunk with the most classical SF themes in there...also is in the 90s, the X-file era....

But I think it would be great that during terror missions there could be a couple cops/guards here and there, so they could be armored and armed...and maybe even react to the aliens AND x-com as well!


Offline LeBashar

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2014, 12:03:15 pm »
Quote
Another thing is, I live in a European country and yet, I do know people whose stash outclasses your average street cop. Say class IIIA body armor, MICH, sporting/hunting/sniper rifle. All of it perfectly legal. And that's today.

In france it is definitly not. And in fact, many cops don't have body armor.

But for me the point is :
Quote
As months go on, the population becomes very wary of the dangers that aliens pose. So as months go on, a greater % of civilians would be wearing, say, simple armour vests, when aliens come terrorising their city?

And has the time pass, they surely be aware that human protection do nothing, and human weapon are unable to injure anything else than those weak sectoides or floater. But when few month has passed, it is not those who come but some snakemen, muton or ethereal.

So, except if civilian can purchase XCom crafted weaponry or armor, the only thing they logically should do is to run away when they see aliens. quickly run.

Offline Arpia

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2014, 07:13:11 pm »
armoured/armed cops or security forces sure, i'm all for that. but aside from mods... there's just civilians, people like you and me... or something like that.

Offline shinr

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2014, 08:20:13 pm »
Guys, you're forgetting something that is quite set in the canon: this is a secret war. Not only the government won't issue anything, civilans themselves know nothing of the impending danger, expect some alien looneys of course (who are probably on the roll because of all these strange accidents around the world).

Expect that the Apoc manual says that the First Alien War became less and less secret as it progressed, and that when X-COM was officially revealed to the public after the war ended, the public's response was "we know already".

Offline Harald_Gray

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Re: Armoured cilivans?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2014, 08:26:08 pm »
Armored/armed civilians have no place in the vanilla game because the original game had none.

Mods can be another thing.

Because as for weapons being nearly nonexistent amongst civilians, well, it depends on where you live. For example, USA has about 8 weapons for 10 citizens, Canada or Germany 3 for 10, my own home 2 for 10. The numbers are a little fuzzy, things like legal/illegal weapons, different laws or different information-gathering methodologies make this somewhat complicated. But the point is that there are more than 50 countries around the world where the estimate is more than 12,5 guns per 100 citizens, which translates to 2 guns amongst 16 civilians on a terror map. USA would have about 13 guns per 16 civilians. Germany 5 guns per 16 civilians.

And many people of the gun are exactly the kind of people who would try to fight the aliens instead of running away, at least if they were facing sectoids or floaters. Those with no real chance of escaping (and you can't run from a city that's gone crazy because there are aliens killing people with plasma guns) would fight too. Many police (who *are* civilians too) would get caught in the situation too. So one or even ten civilians armed with pistols, shotguns or rifles are not that much of a stretch. Their armor would not mean much, most would wear no armor and some might wear weak tier 0 armor, but even armor 16 is better than no armor at all.

And don't forget that armed civilians on a terror map could be a problem too. Imagine the Joe Random you're trying to save mindcontrolled by a sectoid leader and shooting at your agents. You better hope he hasn't acquired one of the thousand laser cannons you've sold for profit  :)