Author Topic: OpenXCom and TFTD Terrorists  (Read 5510 times)

Offline primaltrash

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OpenXCom and TFTD Terrorists
« on: July 31, 2014, 01:17:27 am »
Hey guys, I'm having a blast playing the 1.0 release of OpenXCom. Excited to see you're working on TFTD compatibility as well!

I had some questions/thoughts about how a few TFTD terrorists are going to be handled.  There are some common bugs and inconsistencies with many of them.

Deep Ones - In the base game, they have a spit attack like a Celatid. But their UFOPaedia entry shows them with a gun and says their attack is an electric discharge. I believe I read that the Bio-Drone was built over the Silicoid's entry and that's why they leave a burning path, are Deep Ones built over the Celatid? I'm honestly not sure how they were intended to work. TFTD Extender gives them the gun in the UFOPaedia image and a sonic-like attack, but that feels completely wrong to me.

Bio-Drones - Well known bug of having 0 melee skill and therefore never using their close range attack. I'm guessing that's easily fixed since it's patched up in the TFTD Extender. Also, as above, they leave a burning path like a Silicoid.  Not sure if this was intended or just a remnant of the Silicoid.

Hallucinoids - My understanding is that they're bugged to not use their ranged attack unless on land, where they never appear.  I have the old TFTD strategy guide and it definitely lists their ranged attack stats, so I'm sure that's intended to work. It's listed as a freeze attack and TFTD Extender resolved it by giving them a Thermal Shok Launcher built-in, but it's clearly not intended as an AoE and the strategy guide states that its a lethal attack.

Anyway, you all may not even be this far into the build, but I figured I'd ask.

Thanks again for releasing an open port of such a terrific game.

Offline BlackLibrary

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Re: OpenXCom and TFTD Terrorists
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2014, 06:57:25 am »
Great topic!  Its not jumping the gun to get constructive convo going.

TFTD had known flaws for numerous reasons that went to production.  Thats why the strat guide varied from the actual game.  I'm not complaining mind you...glad they did because the game would have been obsolete on arrival within a two years.

Deep Ones are based on HP Lovecraft, and clearly the creative image of the Deep One with a rifle is based on that and other authors lore.  XCOM is a game of discovery of lore, and the real threat behind them.  The one in game does not reflect the lore of Deep Ones. 

That being said, Deep Ones were supposed to be hybrid.  They were swift, moved on all fours sometimes and struck with their claws.  They could also move on their legs, but stand like a man.  They should not have a spit attack, but should have a viscious claw attack, or a weapon attack with their sonic weapons.  IMO, Deep Ones, if implemented, should be segmented into "classes" if you will like Sectoids. 

IMO, they would be:
HYBRIDs and MONSTEROUS. 

MONSTEROUS (or whatever) should be based on a Reaper.  Move fast, deliver a nasty melee attack, but unlike a reaper, can go through doors and climb stairs!

HYBRID:  Should deploy weapons, have intelligence, and unlock lots of key lore. 

In theory, they are not aliens...or descendents of aliens. They are terran.  I prefer to think they were subjugated by the aliens, and with aliens deep asleep, the deep ones escaped and bred into quite oceanic cities.  For the past few thousand years they endured, but kept quiet, for fear of awakening the Alien/Gods. 

Hybids are actually the children of Man and Deep Ones, since times of old.   Deep Ones have low reproductive abilities and use human reproduction through women sacrificed to gods of the Seas, etc.  (Deep Ones had no cloning technology...they had lost all connection with technology upon escaping their masters 10 millenia ago. 

At birth, Hybrids appear as children who love the call of the sea.  They look and appear as human in every way.  They just feel an uncanny affinity for the deep ocean's call.  As these children get older they grow into their true lineage (oily scaly skin, rheumatic eyes, horrid teeth, bi-sected tongue, etc.  )  Eventually they get the call of the wild and throw themselves to the sea where they metaporhosis over decades into Deep Ones.  They wander the deep in search of others of their ilk.  Meanwhile they are witnessed by sea-farers as mermen and mermaids. 

Eventually they formed cities..ancient cities.  Devil's Reef, Ahu-Y'hloa, G'll-Hoo, Bod Reef, Bermuda, etc.  Quietly and simply they lived...always in balance with their environment.

When mankind began to travel beneath the waves in early 20th century in their loud machines (Submarines), the Deep Ones tried to warn mankind not to tread beneath the waves and disturb the ancient Gods sleep.  They're requests became demands, and their demands fell on unsympathetic human ears. The Deep Ones warnings eventually threatened the tide of mankinds progression to conquer earth, sea, and sky. 

The US gov't fought a secret oceanic war against these underwater cities with their submarines, torpedoes, and depth charges... and destroyed Deep One cities in the late 1920's and 1930's.  It was near genocide, and America covered up the entire affair like they would one day do in Roswell.  When the ancient ones eventually awoke (i.e. TFTD), the Deep Ones that survived pledged themselves to their old masters in fear...Their "masters" used the Deep Ones to find out about mankind, and used the Deep Ones in their scheme to take the earth as harbringers of ruin. 

Interestingly...upon interogation, Deep Ones are free from the evil influences become sympathetic.  They offer up a bounty of lore and technology they gleaned from their masters in order to help mankind, whom they see as more brother and kin.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 07:21:17 am by BlackLibrary »

Offline Gifty

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Re: OpenXCom and TFTD Terrorists
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2014, 07:11:45 am »
This might be a little perpendicular to the topic, but I've been thinking an extended lore mod would be neat, and BlackLibrary's post is pretty close to what I was envisioning.

The Deep Ones attack seems kind of tricky; naturally you'd want to fix inconsistencies with the lore, but at the same time, if you remove the arcing acid attack and give them a rifle you kind of take away what makes the Deep Ones distinct. They'd hardly be different from Gillmen at that point.

Offline BlackLibrary

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Re: OpenXCom and TFTD Terrorists
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2014, 07:31:42 am »
Ah...Gillmen.  They were just so much fun to shoot and kill. 

Gillmen are Deep Ones, imo...the aliens "cloned" Deep Ones.  Weaker than true Deep Ones, for they are harvested and not true sons of Man and Deep Ones!

Maybe...just maybe thats why Deep Ones are the shocktroops of Gillmen in the game.  Perhaps in truth, the Gillmen are the shock troops of the Deep men, and we have it all backwards!  Now that would be interesting to see implemented in a second generation XCOM game.  The terror unit is actually the brains of the operation!

Interesting read about Gillmen:

"Producer William Alland was attending a dinner party during the filming of Orson Welles' Citizen Kane (in which Alland played the reporter Thompson) in 1941 when Mexican cinematographer Gabriel Figueroa told him about the myth of a race of half-fish, half-human creatures in the Amazon river. Figueroa spoke of a friend of his who disappeared in the Amazon while filming a documentary on a rumored population of fish people. Alland then wrote story notes entitled "The Sea Monster" ten years later.[1]"

That is the Gillmen, aka, creature of the Black Lagoon, etc.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 07:41:37 am by BlackLibrary »

Offline BBHood217

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Re: OpenXCom and TFTD Terrorists
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2014, 03:19:50 pm »
I guess I'm also curious how the TFTD terrorists will be handled in OpenXcom.  Will they be left unchanged (deep ones still arc shots, bio dromes still burn floors, hallucinoids still can't shoot underwater, etc.), or will they be fixed somehow?

Offline primaltrash

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Re: OpenXCom and TFTD Terrorists
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2014, 04:51:19 pm »
BL, I think your ideas would be terrific for a mod!

My interest is more focused on the gameplay mechanics though. For example, I've never understood if the Deep One's arcing spit was their intended attack or just a remnant from the Celatid that they were presumably built over.

The Hallucinoids are a little more clear-cut. I've read many confirmations that the only reason their ranged attack doesn't work is because the flag for if it was useable on land or water was incorrect. They can only use the attack on land, but never appear on land.