Author Topic: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03  (Read 58129 times)

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #180 on: December 09, 2014, 08:53:59 pm »
Heh.  Makes me itch to play my "Full Metal" game, with only robots and HWPs. ;)

Offline Morbo

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #181 on: January 29, 2015, 04:19:17 am »
Haven't played openXcom in awhile, so had a question about the modular nature of this whole XAE package.

For example, if i wanted to turn ON Scout armor ruleset, but leave "XAE research and manufacture" option OFF (to use vanilla research tree), will I still be able to research the scout armor?

The ruleset for scout armor dependencies reference Alien Electornics, alien weaponry and alien energy cell. Which I think are all new research topics from "XAE research and manufacture" ruleset. If openxcom can't find those 3 research topics, will it just skip it when it does the dependency check for Scout Amor?

Thx

Code: [Select]
research:
  - name: STR_SCOUT_ARMOR
    cost: 100
    points: 10
    listOrder: 3361
    dependencies:
      - STR_ALIEN_ELECTRONICS
      - STR_ALIEN_ENERGY_CELLS
      - STR_PERSONAL_ARMOR
      - STR_MIND_PROBE
      - STR_ALIEN_WEAPONRY

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #182 on: February 03, 2015, 07:04:52 pm »
Hi!

Sorry for the slow response and thanks for your interest. As it turns out, this is indeed an issue with the mod if one were to use it by itself. Unknown research topics are considered just that: unknown. If OpenXCom has no idea what "Alien Energy Cells" are, then it considers that you can't make or research anything that depends on it, since you can't possibly have any idea what "Alien Energy Cells" are either.

I have attached a working, standalone ruleset, which will be added to an eventual future release.

Offline Vesparco

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #183 on: April 08, 2015, 07:58:49 pm »
Hi,

I'm trying the mod (and also learning about modding in the process XD). I have found some issues in the research tree of depleted elerium. It seems that elerium weaponization (the one that opens the rests) is blocked by some lack of code (or at least once tweaked the rest of the tier opens up nicely).

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #184 on: April 08, 2015, 08:23:56 pm »
Hi!

Are you using the depleted elerium mod by itself? In that mod, Elerium Weaponization has no dependencies, which means that you get it for free if you start a new game with the mod enabled (and it shows up as a research project with 0 cost if you load it mid game). This is done in order to not add extra research for people who don't want to use my research tree, in XAE_Research_and_Manufacture.rul mod (XAE_R&M).

If you are using the whole collection, the dependencies of Elerium Weaponization are defined in the XAE_R&M. Those dependencies might be broken. I was trying to keep things compatible with other mods, but I am not sure it works. Elerium Weaponization requires you to interrogate an alien engineer after having researched the alien grenade. If you have mods that change the engineer interrogations, or if you enabled modded alien races after this mod, the research will not work.

If you added dependencies in the DE_Ammo mod and reloaded the mod by itself, it will overwrite the dependencies I set in XAE_R&M with whatever you defined in DE_Ammo. That seems to be what you did. It works now but might not once you load more mods.

Due to the code structure of OpenXCom, it is impossible to make a complicated research tree without pulling everything into a megamod (of which there are already quite a few and which goes against my philosophy of modding, except for total conversions). To circumvent that, I am working on a compromise with a resilient implementation of a simpler research tree, as well as an advanced research tree for users that are willing to play with the dynamics of mod loading.

Offline Vesparco

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #185 on: April 09, 2015, 12:35:04 am »
Hi!

Are you using the depleted elerium mod by itself? In that mod, Elerium Weaponization has no dependencies, which means that you get it for free if you start a new game with the mod enabled (and it shows up as a research project with 0 cost if you load it mid game). This is done in order to not add extra research for people who don't want to use my research tree, in XAE_Research_and_Manufacture.rul mod (XAE_R&M).

If you are using the whole collection, the dependencies of Elerium Weaponization are defined in the XAE_R&M. Those dependencies might be broken. I was trying to keep things compatible with other mods, but I am not sure it works. Elerium Weaponization requires you to interrogate an alien engineer after having researched the alien grenade. If you have mods that change the engineer interrogations, or if you enabled modded alien races after this mod, the research will not work.

If you added dependencies in the DE_Ammo mod and reloaded the mod by itself, it will overwrite the dependencies I set in XAE_R&M with whatever you defined in DE_Ammo. That seems to be what you did. It works now but might not once you load more mods.

Due to the code structure of OpenXCom, it is impossible to make a complicated research tree without pulling everything into a megamod (of which there are already quite a few and which goes against my philosophy of modding, except for total conversions). To circumvent that, I am working on a compromise with a resilient implementation of a simpler research tree, as well as an advanced research tree for users that are willing to play with the dynamics of mod loading.

I was using the whole set of your mods (even I messed up as I read later the tank mod section not no put all of them together  :P, some tanks got lost during research).

Then I tweaked the DE ruleset as I thought it was  giving me issues into achieving its contents (I had already all alien captures and autopsies).

I assume the issue was as you said that the research of the engineer before the alien grenade. Some thoughts about that would be to forfeit the alien grenade research. Alien engineers are quite hard to come by (they are not found easily unless you go for base assault, in which case you should have steeped deep into the gauss/laser technologies, specially for your overfed mutons XD).

Seems the issue also happens with plasma, as you require the engineer again after the two tech trees are completed I think (or that's what I understood from the ruleset). Also I have a CTD with the small launcher upon accessing the ufopaedia but I have to check it further just in case.

Then, giving feedback about your mod:

I liked your approach for the tanks and the mod in general. The salvaging and tank customization is quite an interesting way of boosting the engineering department. Then the dual tech tree (laser/gauss) is quite appealing, specially with the nice versatile variants of the gauss launcher and the laser blaster. Also, the skywarden is really cool, I loved the side doors.

About the tech tree, there is still some sharp edges such as the improved medikit. Some ufo elements can be hard to come by just by the spawn rate of some higher size ufos (luke extra ufos could help with this). Also, the manufacturing list is quite huge at the end and a little bit annoying to navigate by ( I believe some other mods I tried had some kind of sorting).

Lastly, there are some elements that seems to give quite small improvement (armors and crafts) that fall in the  gap of "short-term useful or avoidable by waiting the long term solution". Is it viable to use the same approach as with the HWP?

-In the case of the armor it could define a "basic armor" and then some upgrades upon it (flying, atribute and so...).

-In the case of interceptor/skyranger variants, it would be nice to "pimp them" progressively from the initial model ( I understand that the game mechanics can be unfriendly to this).


Last but not least, I would like to say I appreciate your approach to the modular modding. Your code is very welcoming and easy to understand, which helps a lot in learning the inner outs of the ruleset system.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #186 on: April 09, 2015, 01:19:40 am »
I was using the whole set of your mods (even I messed up as I read later the tank mod section not no put all of them together  :P, some tanks got lost during research).

Then I tweaked the DE ruleset as I thought it was  giving me issues into achieving its contents (I had already all alien captures and autopsies).

I assume the issue was as you said that the research of the engineer before the alien grenade. Some thoughts about that would be to forfeit the alien grenade research. Alien engineers are quite hard to come by (they are not found easily unless you go for base assault, in which case you should have steeped deep into the gauss/laser technologies, specially for your overfed mutons XD).

I am glad you are enjoying the mod. I have to say the current version is quite outdated. I have had an update planned for a long time but I am trying to test it, which requires a fair amount of time.

If you have no other mod that change the engineer interrogations, you can capture another one and interrogate it after having researched the alien grenade. That will open up the research project.

The idea of Elerium Weaponization (and later Plasma Weapons) is that they require you to understand a basic level, then interrogate an engineer to learn more. If you don't know how to make elerium blow up (the simplest kind of energy extraction), then you're not ready to use it to power weapons, so your researchers can't ask the right questions to the engineer, nor would they understand his answers. Thus if you interrogated an engineer before researching the grenade, you did not learn all you could because it was way above your understanding at the time. You have to get another one. It's like trying to explain algebra to a kid who has not learned arithmetic.

But it is difficult to properly implement. I have a simple ruleset, now, which does not require interrogations at all (since the original did not either) and a separate ruleset, which will come with a big warning, for the unlocks. I generally have no issue with captures and the XAE provides a few more capture tools, so I am not sure I want to make things easier. By the time you need the interrogations, you should have Mag and Scout armors, and laser/gauss weapons which make sectoids and floaters rather easy (except cyberdiscs) and snakemen manageable. It is quite doable to taser aliens, although the stun rods are always a challenge!

Quote
Seems the issue also happens with plasma, as you require the engineer again after the two tech trees are completed I think (or that's what I understood from the ruleset).
Yes, plasma weapons require you to have developed more tech and interrogate another engineer. I split the game into tiers, which require an alien engineer to progress. The order is supposed to be:
0 - Use conventional weapons (+ alloy ammo)
1 - Get basic tech by yourself through scavenging scraps of alien tech
1* - Reach a point where human understanding is limiting you
1** - Get a breakthrough by interrogating an engineer
2 - Get more tech from Elerium Weaponization
2* - Get stuck again because your understanding of this new tech only goes so far
2** - Interrogate another engineer and finally makes sense of their tach
3 - Get the final tech.

It goes similarly with armors as well, where power and flying suits got nerfed and new "endgame" suits were added to compensate.

Quote
Also I have a CTD with the small launcher upon accessing the ufopaedia but I have to check it further just in case.
Are you using the Alien Armoury Expanded? Or another mod that changes the ammunitions of the small launcher? The XAE uses 4 different ammos for the small launcher (Bomb, Smoke Bomb, Stun Bomb, Elerium bomb), but if another mod changes the item definition, that can make the UFOPaedia crash.

Quote
Then, giving feedback about your mod:

I liked your approach for the tanks and the mod in general. The salvaging and tank customization is quite an interesting way of boosting the engineering department. Then the dual tech tree (laser/gauss) is quite appealing, specially with the nice versatile variants of the gauss launcher and the laser blaster. Also, the skywarden is really cool, I loved the side doors.
Glad you're enjoying the new stuff :) I tried to add variety and come up with weapons that encourage different battlefield roles so that not everyone in the skyranger has the same equipment.

Quote
About the tech tree, there is still some sharp edges such as the improved medikit. Some ufo elements can be hard to come by just by the spawn rate of some higher size ufos (luke extra ufos could help with this). Also, the manufacturing list is quite huge at the end and a little bit annoying to navigate by ( I believe some other mods I tried had some kind of sorting).
The improved medikit is basically free health (since it heals more HP per fatal wound) which also means faster soldier recovery from being wounded (recovery time is a function of how wounded a soldier is at the end of the mission, I think?). Since it is a "free improvement" over vanilla, I decided to keep it difficult to obtain.

As for the manufacturing list, I am trying to use categories and group weapons together in a consistent fashion. I don't remember the state it was in 1.03 but the next version will be relatively ordered.

Quote
Lastly, there are some elements that seems to give quite small improvement (armors and crafts) that fall in the  gap of "short-term useful or avoidable by waiting the long term solution". Is it viable to use the same approach as with the HWP?

-In the case of the armor it could define a "basic armor" and then some upgrades upon it (flying, atribute and so...).

-In the case of interceptor/skyranger variants, it would be nice to "pimp them" progressively from the initial model ( I understand that the game mechanics can be unfriendly to this).
It would be possible to implement some armors as "basic armors" and then add different properties to it. The problem with that is the conversion takes a project just like the creation does, and ideally you have another project to turn the upgraded one into a basic one again.. Maybe I could make it such that all corpses from one category can only be repaired to the basic armor, which would remove some of the repairing project and then you have to re-upgrade the armor (costing more materials). Overall though, that gets into the "more bothersome for the player than anything else" territory.

As you suspected, it is impossible to upgrade crafts through manufacturing. Once they become a craft (from "Skyranger" in the purchase menu to "Skyranger-2"), they are not really items any more. Just like soldiers.

Quote
Last but not least, I would like to say I appreciate your approach to the modular modding. Your code is very welcoming and easy to understand, which helps a lot in learning the inner outs of the ruleset system.
Cool! I'm glad you enjoy it. I am trying to make things approachable and customizable (both in choosing which mod you want to use, and modifying the mods for what you like). Have fun playing around. Hopefully I can get v1.1 out soon-ish and it will fix some of the problems. And I'm always happy to add more stuff to the XAE too!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 01:23:12 am by Arthanor »

Offline BBHood217

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #187 on: May 21, 2015, 12:37:55 pm »
All of the recoverable armors lack a "size" entry so attempting to transfer a damaged armor causes great weirdness.

So... it's still v1.03.  I'm starting to think that v1.1 will feature Zrbite Gauss weapons... ;)

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #188 on: May 21, 2015, 07:08:04 pm »
lol probably.. Good point on the recovered armors, I don't think I ever tried to transfer one. All my bases with active crews have at least one workshop to be able to do repairs and resupply locally. I'm kind of annoyed at how you get a damaged armor for a stunned soldier and that soldier also gets to keep his armor since he wasn't killed, so I'll have to eventually look at that.

I have a version of the XAE that is well ahead of v1.03, with more tanks (I can't believe I never released 2 weapons tanks!), rework of psi stuff, research and manufacture changes and some weapons tweaks as well, but I was trying to test it before releasing it. Then I became a pirate...

I'll try to find some time this weekend to look through stuff, package it and publish it. I have indeed been sitting on that update for way too long.

Offline BBHood217

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #189 on: May 21, 2015, 07:33:31 pm »
I wouldn't mind waiting a little longer.  TFTD support is kinda sorta maybe imminent, and mods will have to be updated anyway to fit into the new directory structure and stuff.

Offline BBHood217

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #190 on: May 26, 2015, 03:38:12 pm »
Odd.  My base got attacked (Ethereals with Cyberdisks) which resulted in 3 dead soldiers.  Said soldiers were wearing flying armor, but I can't find any damaged flying armor that they should've left behind.  I can't figure out this one, so I'll just have to make some new flying armor instead.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #191 on: May 26, 2015, 07:08:20 pm »
hum.. I'll have to check if armours produce the right corpses.. I think I'll be overhauling the armour recovery thing soon either way. All personal armour variants (including personal armour itself) will return a damaged personal armour. Personal armour variants will require a suit of personal armour (along with other components) instead of being built from scratch.

That means only one repair manufacturing project per armour type (personal armour, powered suits, powered armour, displacer armour) instead of one per variant, so it cleans up the workshop list a bit.

It also doesn't hurt you if you outfit all your squad in personal armour and discover variants afterwards. You just upgrade the suits instead of having to build new ones and being left with outdated armours.

Offline BBHood217

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #192 on: May 26, 2015, 07:26:50 pm »
Displacer armor?  Moddable armor?

Oh please hurry up, TFTD support.  These upcoming updates of all the mods are starting to become unbearable :P

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #193 on: May 26, 2015, 07:47:58 pm »
I haven't released displacer armour? Man.. I totally lost track of what is in 1.03.. Been working on "1.1" for way too long!

Currently there are a lot of variants of personal armour (vanilla, flying, scout and magshield), and two variants of powered suits and powered armors (walking and flying), also two variants of displacer armours. They are all created from scratch. This will go away and be replaced by building the basic suit from scratch, then upgrading it to the variants. You won't be able to downgrade a variant as I don't foresee it being useful. But if your soldier gets hurt, you'll get a damaged basic suit, which you can repair and then upgrade anew to whatever you want.

The suits (and upgrades) will also require advanced components. Grav modules will be required for any upgrade to flying variants (which means you spend one every time you repair it, better recover those floater corpses!) and alien energy cells/alien electronics will also be used.

Armours also have different stat changes, armour values and resistances. Powered Suits are slow and clunky but offer better protection than personal armours. Powered armours are faster and have better armour, but much harder to develop. Displacer armours have lower armours, but better stats and reduce some damage type by a % value, making them the best for resisting high powered shots (like taking a heavy plasma shot to the face). Mid game should have a mix of personal and suits variants, end game a mix of powered and displacer armours.

Same goes for tanks (can't remember the state of tanks in 1.03...). There is a modular hull/turret system with 3 tiers of tank (basic, alloy and hover). You can repair the hull if your tank gets destroyed, but not the turret. Building turrets will require materials, advanced components and craft-type weapons. Turrets are designed for short-range, mid-range and long range roles, depending on if you want a scout tank, support tank or sniper tank.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
« Reply #194 on: June 15, 2015, 05:16:49 pm »
Well well! After a LONG time, I've slowly started to work on this again. I think I have the mod structure updated to the nightly. At least all the mods display properly :D

There is still some work to be done on some mods to bring them up to standards, but it should be relatively soon. I have attached the upcoming module list. Let me know if there's something missing (or old bugs I should look into.. Currently have noted the armor repairs bugs, which will be fully reworked for the next release).