Overhaul accuracy training?

[TurkishSwede]

I have noticed a prevailing trend in my tactics, and part of my brain likes it and another part doesn't. The part that doesn't is writing this. If I have a soldier, whom I would like to be more accurate, I equip them with a shotgun. This is because I can sneak up behind a sectoid or muton or snakeman and, BLAM BLAM, max out my firing XP. I used to do something similar with grenades, throwing them at reapers, sectopods, and cyberdiscs for 4 XP per grenade, per target. Of course you need a terrorist mission, but either way, neither of these tactics makes any damn sense if looked at.

What I am proposing is an overhaul of the firing experience system, to account for new weapon types, and to balance soldier improvement across the board. I don't have a set idea what it should look like, but here are a few ideas, some food for thought:

 - Aimed fire could give extra experience, say 2 or 3 XP per hit, instead of just 1. That would increase the tactical value of this firing mode (probably my favorite).

 - Aimed and snap firing in general could be given 1 extra XP per 10 tile distance the projectile travels before hitting the intended target, making long shots more worth attempting (second favorite, not sure how hard coding that would be).

 - Shotguns could be nerfed, such that if someone fires once and hits what they are shooting at, they get 1 XP regardless of number of hits. Autofire would still be counted as firing 3 times. (I'm not entirely fond of this idea, says the part of my brain that likes the grossly exaggerated XP from shotguns.)

 - Make each weapon have specific XP per firing mode hit (probably the most difficult example to implement).

Just throwing stuff out there. Any thoughts? Ideas? Perspectives?

[TurkishSwede]

In a similar train of thought, maybe reaction firing could give another reaction experience if the shot hits the target? That way, any shots fired during the alien's turn would boost reactions and firing accuracy would have to be gained from intentional firing on the player's turn.

[Solarius Scorch]

I'm not in favour of the XP per weapon feature, since it would be hard to balance and hard to mod new weapons.

Otherwise it looks like a bunch of solid ideas, worth commenting. Still, I never thought about XP when playing, so I'm not a right person to comment.

[TurkishSwede]

I agree, the XP per weapon idea isn't very practical, it really asks too much when you get down to it. This needs to stay modder friendly.

[yrizoud]

I have similar critics of the combat XP system :

1) The progress is exponential : unskilled soldiers are hopeless, beginners have trouble getting any experience, while skilled soldiers increase faster as they get better. I'd prefer an opposite system, where the first combat experience makes a big difference, and it slows down a lot for veterans : It would entice me to play without reloading during fights, accepting losses and hiring replacements.

2) It encourages weird tactics : Strong weapons are discouraged because the low-damage ones bring more experience (especially pistol/rifle in vanilla), and training reactions requires guarding disarmed aliens (!?)

I've just managed to compile OpenXCOM, and I'm beginning to test an idea I had: To index most stats on the number of kills. The first kill would have a massive effect to the rookie (like +10), but after that it would quickly drop, so that it's mostly important to have your rookies get 3-5 kills.
I also take the starting skill into effect, so that the terrible shooters can catch up.

[Solarius Scorch]

Number of kills can be considered a solution, but it has certain repercussions: specialized soldiers like Psi-Amp operators or stunners won't have their share of XP. In my opinion it will do more harm than it's worth.

[yrizoud]

I'll see if I can reliably attribute a "kill" for stunned aliens on mission debriefing, this way there's no cheesing by stunning the same alien multiple times, and no question about stunning vs killing since they both reward the attacker equally.
I'll think about Psi operators, but their speciality totally ignores accuracy and reactions anyway, and despite the distance factor, it's actually more practical to keep all psi-users in the transport. It doesn't bother me if a recruit who is a psi genius stays physically wimpy forever, and if one of my veterans is determined to be a very good psi operator, at least his TUs>=75 will stay useful for using the psi-amp 3 times instead of 2.

[Warboy1982]

well, i just nerfed the bonus xp from shotguns, so... enjoy that.

[Solarius Scorch]

well, i just nerfed the bonus xp from shotguns, so... enjoy that.

Yay! Thanks!

How did you do this? By modifying the shotgun, or the general pellets flag?

[Warboy1982]

only the "first" shotgun pellet will award XP. this is the most likely to hit of all the pellets.

[Solarius Scorch]

only the "first" shotgun pellet will award XP. this is the most likely to hit of all the pellets.

So it'll work for all shotguns, good! Thanks Warboy.

[kkmic]

So it's theoretically possible to hit with a shotgun and not get xp/credit/etc?

[Solarius Scorch]

So it's theoretically possible to hit with a shotgun and not get xp/credit/etc?

As far as I understand it, yes. However, the chances are fairly low, since the first projectile is the most accurate one.

[kkmic]

I fired once at a alien and my mouse moved and I ordered the shot to the right of the target... however the guy missed and hit the alien instead