Author Topic: The weapon upgrade idea.  (Read 16303 times)

Offline MKSheppard

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Re: The weapon upgrade idea.
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2011, 05:25:03 am »
Rework the Rocket Launcher -- the UFOPedia says:

The rocket launcher is a laser guided system which can fire three different sizes of missile.

Use the code for the blaster launcher with the rocket launcher with some modifications and the following limitations:

* You get only two waypoints.
* The waypoints must be within the soldier's line of sight.
* Passing through smoke makes the rocket go 'dumb' and nose to the ground.
* You cannot make sudden and sharp vector changes with the waypoints (90 degree turn in one square).

With this, the Aliens still retain the upper hand. They have a 200~ damage weapon that can fire through smoke; go up stairs, attack targets from beyond the soldier's LOS, and with unlimited waypoints.

Offline Daiky

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Re: The weapon upgrade idea.
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2011, 12:29:19 pm »
I like the idea of differently colored smoke for different types of smoke, because it could possibly be done with palette shifting :)

Offline MKSheppard

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Re: The weapon upgrade idea.
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2011, 03:57:41 am »
Since we're in the 'lets change significant gameplay parts', why not rework the Heavy X's in the game?

Right now, Heavy Lasers are pretty much useless; and the Heavy Plasma is UberGod, and there's the amusing image of sectoids carrying a Heavy Plasma that's half their height!

Some rough ideas I had to fix this in random order:

1.) Rework the Strength stats.

Currently they are:

Base Strength Stat Range (Median)

X-COM Rookies: 20-40 (30)
Sectoids: 30-32 (31)
Floater: 40-51 (46)
Snakeman: 47-50 (49)
Muton: 70-75 (73)
Ethereal: 48-52 (50)

Some of it makes sense, like the Mutons. Others don't make sense.

Why should Sectoids, who are little weak skinny midgets; have a minimum strength of 30, when X-COM rookies have a minimum strength of 20?

The weakest X-COM rookie should be able to pick up a sectoid and drop kick them into the next state without too much trouble.

I would suggest shaving the stats downward for all the alien races by about 10~ points; with sectoids being between 14-20 and lowering the STRENGTH cap for humans to about maybe 57 or so.

Humans should never be able to come close to matching mutons in Strength, no matter how much you exercise them.

2A.) Set minimum strength requirements to equip weapons. Use this to 'price' certain things out of the reach of various X-COM personnel or aliens unless they meet strength standards. You won't see sectoids with heavy plasmas; and you will see some variation in the other races; with most aliens having plasma rifles, and the outliers having heavy plasmas. Of course, Mutons would be 100% heavy plasma. That's what makes them so deadly.

2B). Increase the armor of cyberdiscs and sectopods, along with the human HWPs so that you need a heavy weapon like rocket launcher, heavy laser, heavy plasma, etc to reliably damage them. It gives you a reason to develop the heavy weapons or to have someone lugging them around. Yes, you can eventually kill a cyberdisk/sectopod/HWP with a plasma rifle or laser rifle; but it will take many many hits. A heavy weapon can kill it much easier.


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Re: The weapon upgrade idea.
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2011, 04:53:11 am »
there's the amusing image of sectoids carrying a Heavy Plasma that's half their height!

I had a thought a while back about suggesting that a soldier's strength play a greater role in the game (item limit by weight, soldiers with low strength can't carry heavy weapons, soldiers with moderate strength can hold more than one weapon, strong soldiers could hold more than one weapon, with the option of one of those weapons being a heavy weapon).  Weapon upgrades could be incorporated into this as well; ie: the 'using alien alloys to improve the starting fleet' suggestion from a while back would result in lighter initial weapons?

Offline hellblade

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Re: The weapon upgrade idea.
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2011, 07:28:32 pm »
The ideas are getting wild, lol.

The only thing likely welcomed by most players so far is a las cannon hovertank.  I'm sure all of you have had this idea crossed your mind as it makes alot more sense than the tank/las after you get the hover tech.

And this should NOT be in a mod.

Offline Patupi

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Re: The weapon upgrade idea.
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2011, 12:32:30 am »
One thing I always thought weird about the original XCom was that human researchers could reproduce alien technology so easily. Yeah, you hardly ever need to build Plasma rifles or their clips if you scavenged them from aliens, but you could build them, along with pretty much everything else.

As a mod (not the vanilla game! Too much of a change from the old version) how about when you research technology you can use it, and maybe build a human VERSION of the item, but not duplicate alien hardware. For example for a plasma pistol clip researched you could build clips for it with advanced human technology, but they'd be clunkier (maybe 2x2 squares big and twice as heavy) and have only half the shots. If you are REALLY short on one type of ammo it might be useful. For plasma weapons you might only be able to build plasma cutters for close combat only, but powerful.

For UFOs, when you research 'UFO Power Source' you can use their units in vessels that XCom build, or build a simpler nuclear powered version. IE half the fuel range and slightly slower (though still faster than the stock interceptor). When you research 'Improved interceptor' you'd get both the flying saucer version (uses all alien components) or something that looks like a half breed between the saucer and the interceptor (and uses all human built components). That alone would be useful if you weren't reliant on Elerium for fueling!

For Flying Suits it uses NTG (Nuclear Thermal Generator) to power flight engines (of some sort. Ducted fans?) but can only go 1 level above the ground, or 1 level above a roof, etc. It also would have slightly less armour. Same lower armour for human Power armour. Use Human 'Nuclear Power Source' to build instead of 'UFO Power Source'.

Not sure about Alien Alloys. Should they still be buildable? If a piece of tech needs them do you not need them for a 'human built' version?

This might work alongside the suggestions above (albeit maybe fewer of them) such as alien alloy based weapons and AP ammo/gas grenades.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 12:58:42 am by Patupi »

Offline Istrebitel

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Re: The weapon upgrade idea.
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2011, 05:55:10 pm »
Yes, i think there could be an option to follow:

* Laser Pistol + Plasma Pistol + Clip => Some new hybrid pistol technology. It could provide more speed and damage than both.
* Laser Rifle + Plasma Rifle + Clip => Some new hybrid rifle technology. It could have seriously upgraded aiming mode that would actually be useful, allowing perfect CTH even for people with lesser accuracy (say 150% or 175% built-in accuracy). It could have less accurate than plasma rifle, but faster to compensate (and overall better) snap shots. And have more shots per clip
* Heavy Laser + Heavy Plasma + Clip => Some new hybrid heavy weapon technology. It could have unlimited ammo (since in a bigger gun its easier to fit a compact reactor that makes it powered forever or require recharege only after combat) or built-in 100 or so shots. Maybe it could be even directly elerium-fed (meaning, it costs 1 elerium to recharge, say, 50 shots at base). It could have damage surpassing heavy plasma so it would blast ufo walls easier. Would also be faster (and have a reasonable aimed shot mode, again, as both rifle and heavy plasma have useless aimed shot modes)
* Blaster Launcher + Bomb + Small Launcher + Bomb => Some new hybrid autocanon-like technology. Having multiple ammunition possible, it could load stun, he or plasma projectiles. It would be heavier than autocanon, but pack a seriously bigger punch, close to that of a rocket launcher lg. With autofire capabilities :)
* Alien grenade + Psi tech => Some new psi-grenade that would deal new damage type that only harms living beings, ignores items and walls. It would also probably go through them completely. Target would use its Psi resistance instead of armor to protect itself from this kind of damage. Should be very fun means of cleaning those aliens behind the door.

Problem is - does X-Com needs a better weapon tech?

Maybe X-Com needs to have some handicap when using alien equipment - like, -15% chance to hit since its unusual to humans (not made for their kind of hands etc.) Since otherwise, due to aliens providing generous supply of heavy plasma, and heavy plasma being like second best to-go weapon in the game (considering damage,speed,and accuracy) (after plasma rifle, imho, which just owns with it 85% snaps) (but having benefit of more damage and being able to breach ufo walls which can argueably help alot).... well, there is no need for better weapons.

In fact, this game lacks better armor, not better weapons. (And bigger item limit!)
With heavy plasma (provided you'd not have problems with item limit) every person in your squad can down every single alien in the game (maybe except sectopod) in one-two hits, reliably, with serious accuracy.
What else do you need?
However, in best flying armor, you can still very easilly go dead one-shot from two most common enemy endgame weapons in the game - blaster launcher and heavy plasma.

Maybe an advanced armor is what we need? Something providing more armor than a flying suit, but without flying capability and having more energy spent. Something that turns your soldiers into a walking mecha. But at a cost of course - of lesser mobility. That would also make you choose between mobility and defense - which would make serious sense, since right now your only limit is resources.

PS: As a side mod, something could be done that would make X-Com seriously handicapped when using alien equipment or outright not being able to use it, at all.
This would require an alternative research route (after laser and plasma are through) that would create new technology that would rival those of aliens (then it could even have similar stats, just different looks and sounds). Like "here's our Human response to your Alien heavy plasma!"
Same for grenades and every alien stuff. Would make sense, really.

Offline moriarty

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Re: The weapon upgrade idea.
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2011, 11:42:41 pm »
the trouble with moddable or upgradeable weapons/armor/ammo/craft in-game has already been mentioned: if you keep adding stuff to the game, the lists ("equip craft", for example) will become incredibly long, and after a while you won't even be able to remember which of your soldiers uses what kind of rifle.

I'm a big fan of the idea of improving human technology by implementing alien tech, though. perhaps when you research a new technology, certain items can simply be replaced by the improved version? for example after researching alien alloys, a new research option would be "improved rifle". once you've researched that, all rifles will be upgraded.

the only trouble is, human items can be bought... then again, the ufopaedia text would just need to include a passage about giving out the blueprints to your suppliers, which then continue to build only the improved versions from then on. and since they are so happy about the new toys, they instantly replace all your already-bought stuff with the improved versions.

Offline Chiko

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Re: The weapon upgrade idea.
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2012, 06:34:45 pm »
Well... researching the Small Launcher and its ammo could lead to those new Non-Lethal Weapons development we all want.

Specifically, a new grenade, new ammo type for human weapons and a human version of the Small Launcher. I have sprites for them already. :P

Also, a good idea to avoid the Small Launcher to become obsolete is to make it able to set waypoints in the same way a Blaster Launcher does. Maybe making it able to set less waypoints.