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Author Topic: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory  (Read 52050 times)

Offline kkmic

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2014, 11:38:01 am »
Forgive me for resurrecting this old topic, (and my ignorance), but what's the status of this feature? Merged, still under development, dead?

Offline redv

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2014, 03:46:44 pm »
The feature works well for me but wasn't proposed for master build.
This is fresh screenshot:


I made exactly what i wanted, but i saw a required a little more. Transparency for example.
I tryed several different algorithms for transparency, but result was not good for me. Therefore sometimes the feature looks like this:


Therefore, i belive, this feature not ready for PR.
Anyway, if you want to do as best as possible you can get a start point here: https://github.com/redv/OpenXcom/tree/throw_view

volutar

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2014, 05:00:45 pm »
Indicator of danger zone better to be tile-based, since it doesn't affect on part of tile. Also it could consider tile occlusion (i.e. use actual algorithm), and simpy coloring them into red, like it was for first version of path preview.
That's how I see it.

Offline kkmic

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #63 on: April 18, 2014, 02:08:33 pm »
I like the circle + highlight of all the targets that will be affected by the explosion. That's the best option IMHO.

As for the circle's appearance, I'd go with this approach:



I know that the circle looks "floaty", but that's a small price to pay.

Offline redv

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #64 on: April 18, 2014, 07:30:06 pm »
Basic idea was to do something like this:


but this thing must look like a part of vanilla Xcom.
If we use transparency in OpenXcom, then this circle will looks like was obtained from another game.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 07:37:04 pm by redv »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #65 on: April 18, 2014, 08:11:03 pm »
I also vote for a simple orange ring and all viable targets (units, not tiles) flashing the same colour.

I understand the circle can be obscured at times (wheat field being the most extreme case), but the flashing effect should be enough help. And you can simply move the circle to some other terrain to assess its size.

volutar

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #66 on: April 18, 2014, 09:03:22 pm »
I truly disregard this project (xcom2012) and his gamedesigner and am totally sure it's a disgrace for xcom1-3 lovers. Why he spoiled whole internet by adding enormous amounts of ambiguity? When you're trying to search for "ufo enemy unknown" you're getting messy results diluted with lots of crap. Why didn't they take totally different title like XCOM:Reborn or something? Right, to become a leech at the fame of Gollop's title. That's how marketing works.

And I highly discommend using something of their questionable features and doubtful inventions. It's ordinary console game for alternatively gifted, not even close to vanilla game of 1994.

Question: How can you see if that particular tile is under attack or not if that orange circle line touches tile slightly, or slightly more than that?
Answer: There's no way! The only way is to highlight particular tiles.

In sake of saving time I recommend not to waste time on "nice","fancy","xcom2012-ish" but totally impractical things.

Offline redv

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #67 on: April 18, 2014, 11:41:19 pm »
I also vote for a simple orange ring and all viable targets (units, not tiles) flashing the same colour.

I understand the circle can be obscured at times (wheat field being the most extreme case), but the flashing effect should be enough help. And you can simply move the circle to some other terrain to assess its size.

I understand your point. Perhaps, you right. Yankes have a code for recoloring of unit in real time.
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=523.msg17008#msg17008
The code can be used and for blink units. I'll think about that.

And I highly discommend using something of their questionable features and doubtful inventions. It's ordinary console game for alternatively gifted, not even close to vanilla game of 1994.

Question: How can you see if that particular tile is under attack or not if that orange circle line touches tile slightly, or slightly more than that?
Answer: There's no way! The only way is to highlight particular tiles.

This feature isn't intended as precise instrument. This is just for fun. The feature has no effect on the gameplay.

Xcom 2012 is perfect game, IMO. I had much fun when I played this game. Especially first encounter with chryssalids in terror mission. When they wiped out my squad :( Do you think I am alternatively gifted? ;)

volutar

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2014, 12:29:14 am »
This feature isn't intended as precise instrument. This is just for fun. The feature has no effect on the gameplay.
It's not just "non precise", it's simply misleading and confusing. And that's not even fun. It should take actual explosion data, perhaps even considering obstacles/walls.

Xcom 2012 is perfect game, IMO. I had much fun when I played this game. Especially first encounter with chryssalids in terror mission. When they wiped out my squad :(
No, I just think you're in the wrong community. You won't get support for xcom2012 (and don't post herithic screenshots here). xcom2012 is not even close to vanilla xcom game.

Do you think I am alternatively gifted? ;)
Sometimes I found myself drawing circles on the paper without any reason when relaxing my brain.
Anyways, playing xcom2012 too much can injure one's cognitive functions. I wouldn't recommend that.

Seriously, it's a bad example of "sequel" or "remake". I simply disdain looking at it. It's gross. It's like Windows8 Metro UI for programming.

Offline moriarty

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #69 on: April 19, 2014, 12:56:09 am »
<off-topic> I don't think this entire community is devoted to bashing xcom2012. Yes, it's different, but it does have a lot of interesting ideas. On the other hand, I can see a relevant percentage of this community agreeing that it's nice to use moderate language and abstain from trying to bully people into accepting your beliefs.</off-topic>

the circle graphic, while simple and nice-looking, might lead people to believe that something will be affected which in truth isn't, as well as vice versa. A highly-precise tile-by-tile recoloring, while correct, will probably be ugly. I really don't know what would be better. Perhaps you could provide both? Like the path preview option, which can be toggled between "off", "arrows" and "arrows w/TU", this could be toggled between "off", "circle" and "tile-by-tile". People could then decide which it is they like best.

The idea of units inside the blast radius flashing as a visual cue is certainly a nice extra, if it's possible.


Offline myk002

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #70 on: April 19, 2014, 01:33:02 am »
if affected units are to flash, take care that only /seen/ units flash.  this shouldn't make visible otherwise hidden aliens.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2014, 02:26:37 am »
Well, I thought the circle did correspond to the grenade's area of effect... Well, as much as a circle can correspond with square tiles.

I agree it shouldn't be misleading, but on the other hand I don't want to see AoE composed of big squares. No clear idea on solution for now.

Offline moriarty

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2014, 07:48:36 am »
as much as a circle can correspond with square tiles.

This, precisely :) there will always be tiles touched by the circle that actually aren't affected, or tiles that are affected but not touched.

For that matter, maybe an "expanding circle" effect would be nice? Kind of like the concentric waves from a stone thrown into water? They could trail off at the approximate blast radius. Grenades are already too precise for my taste, anyway ;) - give the user the clear idea that the graphic shows an approximation, not a precise information.

Offline kkmic

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #73 on: April 25, 2014, 10:18:36 am »
Come on Volutar, we're discussing improvements here, not perfection.

Granted, there may be a better way of doing this stuff (that's why we're discussing), but there is also a limit from where the gain is not worth the effort.

Please don't just tell why a feature is wrong, but also tell how would you correct it.



Considering that in the original there was absolutely no way tot tell which tiles were affected (except by visually counting them), I think that this feature is a goos step forward. It won't give you the exact tiles which will be affected by the explosion, but it will give you something better than the noting we have now.

I understand the circle can be obscured at times (wheat field being the most extreme case), but the flashing effect should be enough help. And you can simply move the circle to some other terrain to assess its size.

If this gets implemented, you will see which enemy units will be affected. And this will give you all the info you need, regardless of the circle visibility, or if it only touches the corner of a tile.

@redv: Can you give as an advanced option for the circle like 0 = disabled, 1= obscured by terrain and 2 = drawn over everything else (the flashing is always enabled for #1 and #2 values), like the current "Explosion height" advanced option?

volutar

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Re: Features: Show chance to hitting and the throw trajectory
« Reply #74 on: April 25, 2014, 05:06:19 pm »
Come on Volutar, we're discussing improvements here, not perfection.
Sorry, but I don't see how fancy misleading ring is improvement. Improvement means it provides reliable information.

Quote
Granted, there may be a better way of doing this stuff (that's why we're discussing), but there is also a limit from where the gain is not worth the effort
Please don't just tell why a feature is wrong, but also tell how would you correct it.
I already told what would be better. By having affected tiles recolored, probably even with colors, meaning damage amount (there's already explosion map calculated during explosion itself, and it could be use to visualize).
But that kind of precision (showing which tile will be safe due to blockage) could push it beyond the line called "cheat", or "easy life".
See, xcom is about hard life, making it easy by "automating" everything will make it cheap softcore (opposite to hardcore), and not really tough, which is important for xcom lovers. Thus I'm not sure if that is really needed.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 05:09:24 pm by volutar »