aliens

Author Topic: [ARMOR] Combat Armor  (Read 25870 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 9825
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2014, 05:11:29 pm »
I would like to raise another issue: if this armour is purely human and doesn't need research, why even make it a separate item?
All my life I believed that "unarmoured" X-Com troops wore something like Kevlar vests, seeing as they do have armour values (as opposed to human civilians, who have 0 on all sides). This armour makes this assumption void, though still doesn't explain why unarmoured agents have armour. Would this "combat armour" count as "heavy combat armour", while "no armour" counts as "light combat armour"? Then why do you need to buy one type separately but not the other?
The only way to fix this that I can see is to make the combat armour researchable and manufactureable. It would have to be weaker than Personal Armour, but available for research from the very start. On the other hand, Personal Armour is always my first go-to research, and you get Alien Alloys almost on day one, so I'm not sure I'd bother researching this (unless it gave some distinct advantages, but I don't know what they could be).

Offline Fox105iwsp

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
    • View Profile
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2014, 01:05:34 pm »
Hi again everyone  :) I have no idea if this should be considered a new mod or not.
But since the combat armor was used, I decided it should be tested by everyone here first.

Also, to give my opinion on armor types issue, Let's just assume that the current X-com issue overalls are made from Kevlar Aramid panels like in fencing and motorbike protective suits. They will give protection from falling on the road, being dragged and minor pokes and stuff, but are in no way bullet resistant.  :(

So, that leaves us with current armor systems, where kevlar interceptor is used, for those of you who are aware of Spectra and Dyneema should know that these two are flammable or weak against heat, no good for plasma at all >_<

So, here are several uniforms and armor systems for you all to test, they are based on real-life prices and are all weaker than the Alloy Personal Armor. This is meant for those who want to play hard mode or just want some color and fun in your life  ;D

Included are:-
Army Armor
A.N. Armor (helmets marked on the left side)
Camo uniform
Camor Armor

Camo order is:
1= Urban
2 = Jungle
3= Desert
4 = Arctic

These will not clash will any current armor mods as far as I know....
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 02:35:56 pm by Fox105iwsp »

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5305
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2014, 04:12:58 pm »
Afair the frontal armor value of the X-Com overalls is 12, compare that with the hitting power of a standard-issue pistol (26) or a rifle (30). Here, we can't really tell what's 'realistic', but in-game this armor completely fails to protect against these weapons.
In real life, of course, even if an Interceptor armor can withstand repeated hits with 5.56 rounds, it hardly makes a soldier invincible - a bullet can hit in the face, or drill through an arm into one's chest... not even to mention that there's no such thing as non-lethal area when firearms are concerned, hits to the extremities being only *usually* non-lethal. And there's the issue of incapacitating shots that knock people unconscious - a rare sight in X-Com, that is, unless someone is beaten within an inch of their life. We probably need to compare statistics, as each point can be argued over and back again. I remember statistics gathered by the Israeli military, stating that the introduction of body armor increased survival rates of their soldiers by 30%. But the grander case is, how we can even compare the modern battlefield to the alien war battlefield. Surely plate armor increased survival rates back in the Renaissance, but in this day and age, it would probably *decrease* them, as any slight protection against bullets and flak it might give is more than offset by worse mobility and lack of camouflage. Same could happen here - sure, wear an Interceptor or Dragonscale (which might be actually better, since it's made of metal), but your TU's and reactions should be affected... does the extra armor offset these disadvantages?

@Solar:
Yes and no. Remember, X-COM aren't army, they start with a modest armory and have to buy everything, and pay for everything. And top-notch body armor is more expensive than rifles. Otoh if they have experimental anti-alien weapons like Autocannon, why not experimental armor as well? If you have the cash to buy it from the developer...

@Fox:
What about Dragonscale armor? It's made of metal, it doesn't burn like Kevlar ^^

Offline Fox105iwsp

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
    • View Profile
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2014, 04:52:06 pm »
Actually DragonSkin armor is made from ceramics (silicon carbide ???) disks, and yes, won't burn, extra strong and tough  ;D

But it's kind of similar to a high quality Titanium Strike Plate, both can receive multiple, repeated hits from AP Rifle fire. So think the stats will be the same or slightly better  :)

But, I'll have to redo all the sprites and art >_< the dragonskin vest is usually desert Tan with a basic look. But if you really want it, I'll think about it, these sprites and art are from Bagirov's Camo mod.

Also, I have no idea if the damage modifiers work or not >_<
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 07:54:51 am by Fox105iwsp »

Offline Mr. Quiet

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 575
  • Likes: Quiet things. Dislikes: Loud things.
    • View Profile
    • =Open_X_Com= Mods
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2014, 12:04:47 am »
Nice skins Fox105, This is what I'll need when I'm wanting to seperate my Operatives into small teams. I'll wait for you to update it and also you should start a thread so everyone can see them.

Offline Fox105iwsp

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
    • View Profile
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2014, 08:39:49 am »
Can someone help me guess what color to use? The sprites I'm using are colored funny, I have trouble understanding how it's converted. >_<

I looking for a darker Tan color then the Desert Camo uniform shown here, the guy dying, the other sprite is a man wearing a black vest >_<

Can someone help figure it out, I'm working on other projects right now....

Offline Shoes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
    • View Profile
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2014, 12:36:08 pm »
Take a look here : https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=PALETTES.DAT#Color_Indexes

I think the only colors available for you to use are the "Tactical Palette" colors.

Offline Fox105iwsp

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
    • View Profile
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2014, 12:48:32 pm »
Doesn't really help, I have the palettes, but I must guess wildly how the colors will turn out >_< look at the guy, he's blue....

Offline SupSuper

  • Lazy Developer
  • Administrator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2153
    • View Profile
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2014, 05:05:56 pm »
Can someone help me guess what color to use? The sprites I'm using are colored funny, I have trouble understanding how it's converted. >_<

I looking for a darker Tan color then the Desert Camo uniform shown here, the guy dying, the other sprite is a man wearing a black vest >_<

Can someone help figure it out, I'm working on other projects right now....
Are you embedding the palette correctly into the image file? Only GIF and PNG support palettes, and you can't let your image editor optimize it away.

Offline alienfood

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 79
  • It's people!
    • View Profile
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2014, 05:52:24 pm »
I suggest an early-access armor type that is expensive, might need researching (maybe less than medkit), is ablative (i.e. gets used up and must be repaired or replaced) and it shares damage with the body, so the soldier also needs to heal. The purpose would be to take away some killshots and let your squad gain experience, although at a price.

Offline Fox105iwsp

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
    • View Profile
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2014, 06:34:06 pm »
SupSuper: the files were originally in .pck format, I used a pck2gif convertor to extract the images so that I could edit them for openxcom, but the colors only come out this way. >_< maybe using something else like pckview, but that's bitmap....it will have to be converted again to .gif .... I guess, that can't be helped then, I'll try the long way around ....

Alienfood: That sounds like a complete overhaul of the core ruleset >_< Scary....

Offline yrizoud

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1024
    • View Profile
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2014, 07:20:13 pm »
Fox105iwsp: What image editor are you using ? If you use MSPAINT or any other that only handles images in RGB color model, the GIF palette will be lost.

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5305
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2014, 11:43:37 pm »
Here's what I'm doing to at least get an approximately good palette (I ripped tftd sprites that way):

1. Use Photoshop if you can. Create macros for everything.
2. Rip the bmp files with pckview. Make sure you set the right palette (ufo battle if it's UFO sprite, tftd battle if it's TFTD)
2. Convert all the files to gif format straight away. I use interlaced gif, not sure if it's important.
3. copy the image to memory, THEN convert to the attached palette, THEN paste it back (to preserve placing)
4. remove all background colour/s

Step 3 can sometimes be ommited - if the palette was close enough, just convert to RGB, then convert back to Indexed using said palette. This way removing the background is easier later.

PS. The palette is posted as a fake .png, change the extension to .act to have a working file.

Offline Fox105iwsp

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
    • View Profile
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2014, 01:57:20 pm »
I see, thanks for your advise, I'll give it a try.

Also, I'm currently equipped  wit, Painshop Pro 7 & 8 (my working standard and favourite ^_^ ) , Paint.net , Gimp ,PCKview and PCK2gif My painshop pro has several palettes that is suppose to be for Xcom, TFTD and Xcom Apocalypse. It's just that my sprites started in funny colours and swamping out the palette doesn't help  at that point. So, I'll have to rip them from Pckview BMPs as suggested....

Offline Warboy1982

  • Administrator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
  • Developer
    • View Profile
Re: [ARMOR] Combat Armor
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2014, 02:00:30 pm »
if you're swapping the palette, i'd suggest converting to RGB first, then convert it to the new one, that way it can try to approximate the original colours with the new palette. at least, this is how i do it in photoshop, i'm not sure about paint shop pro