aliens

Author Topic: Grenade shortcut  (Read 4125 times)

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Grenade shortcut
« on: December 25, 2023, 01:18:20 am »
I think I saw this topic somewhere but not sure if it got implemented.

Would it be nice to have a key that takes grenade into hand and primes it? Optionally even switch to throw mode.
Different key for different grenade types: smoke, flair, and others.

Probably typical keys for other inventory that has same repetitive actions: scanner, medi-kit, alien detector?
With key it will be just grab and use, no need to get into inventory.

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2023, 06:05:06 am »
Added shortcuts to my fork. Can merge to yours if interested.
grenade pick/prime
smoke grenade
proximity grenade
flare
scanner
medikit

Offline Bonakva

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2024, 08:47:21 am »
You mean shortcuts?
For example
You press "1" you pick up a grenade from your inventory.
You press "2" you pick up a first aid kit?

Offline Xilmi

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2024, 02:30:33 pm »
I merged these from someone quite a while ago. Most likely from you.

Edit: Oh, wait, this thread existed since quite a while. It's just that there is a new reply.

So @Bonakva: Yeah, just it's not 1 or 2 because those are already in use for other things.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 02:32:43 pm by Xilmi »

Offline Bonakva

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2024, 04:34:20 pm »
I merged these from someone quite a while ago. Most likely from you.

Edit: Oh, wait, this thread existed since quite a while. It's just that there is a new reply.

So @Bonakva: Yeah, just it's not 1 or 2 because those are already in use for other things.
OMG. It is amazing.
The only reason I rarely used grenades is the sheer amount of action to just throw a single grenade. This innovation opened up a whole layer of gameplay for me. Thank you.


It is probably worth creating a separate topic for the proposal, but for now I will write here.
Is it possible to increase the aircraft selection windows? I have already proposed this idea (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=10066.msg140521#msg140521)

Offline Meridian

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2024, 04:42:26 pm »
OMG. It is amazing.
The only reason I rarely used grenades is the sheer amount of action to just throw a single grenade. This innovation opened up a whole layer of gameplay for me. Thank you.

About 1-2 seconds. Absolutely tragic time loss :)

It takes a lot more time (and brain) to choose which grenade, or which medikit you want to use.
Bandages? Healing spray? First aid kit? Healing gel?
And take it from a belt? Or quick draw slot? Or Backpack?

Automated decision is never a good decision... so what "innovation" and what "layer"?

Offline Bonakva

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2024, 05:18:54 pm »
About 1-2 seconds. Absolutely tragic time loss :)

It takes a lot more time (and brain) to choose which grenade, or which medikit you want to use.
Bandages? Healing spray? First aid kit? Healing gel?
And take it from a belt? Or quick draw slot? Or Backpack?

Automated decision is never a good decision... so what "innovation" and what "layer"?

Yeah... But if there is a task to throw grenades en masse, especially stun grenades or disarming grenades, it turns into a chore. Go into inventory, put grenade in, exit inventory, activate grenade, throw grenade. Repeat two times on each of the 3-4 closest soldiers. Repeat on another enemy next turn. Repeat on enemies in the next mission. And then it gets so annoying that you stop using grenades. It's interesting and easy only the first couple times, and then it gets annoying.

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2024, 05:59:44 pm »
Agree. It does get annoying to the level that interferes with conscious tactical thinking. Besides, this is just an available keyboard shortcut that does not stop player from doing this old fashioned way if they need to.

About 1-2 seconds. Absolutely tragic time loss :)

It is tragic to me and other people I made this improvement for. Not forcing it on others.

It takes a lot more time (and brain) to choose which grenade, or which medikit you want to use.
Bandages? Healing spray? First aid kit? Healing gel?
And take it from a belt? Or quick draw slot? Or Backpack?

Automated decision is never a good decision... so what "innovation" and what "layer"?

Are you talking about vanilla like game/mods or complete game redesign? This feature is for vanilla grenade/item set where you have only those listed in shortcuts.
This is pretty useless to argue how bad it would behave in some other game with different item set.

Offline Meridian

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2024, 06:12:39 pm »
Are you talking about vanilla like game/mods or complete game redesign? This feature is for vanilla grenade/item set where you have only those listed in shortcuts.
This is pretty useless to argue how bad it would behave in some other game with different item set.

Of course I'm talking about mods.
And Bonakva is obviously also talking about mods (there's no stun or disarming grenades in vanilla).
« Last Edit: April 07, 2024, 06:14:25 pm by Meridian »

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2024, 06:58:43 pm »
I agree. Any shortcut should be adjusted from the game point of view.

Offline Xilmi

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2024, 07:33:55 pm »
Automated decision is never a good decision...
This sounds like a rather dogmatic anti-automation-position to me. :o


Offline Meridian

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2024, 07:37:41 pm »
This sounds like a rather dogmatic anti-automation-position to me. :o

Why?
I'm all for automation of mindless tasks which don't need decision-making.
I made tons of automation features myself.

Offline Bonakva

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2024, 11:56:19 am »
This sounds like a rather dogmatic anti-automation-position to me. :o

I apologize in advance if I'm expressing the idea in a confused way.
Is there a possibility to reconfigure grenades without in-depth knowledge of the code and changing the fork? Just if the settings are tied to the types of grenades I would be able to change the necessary grenades just by editing them in the "ruleset".
I was planning to replace a proximity grenade with a disarm grenade

Offline psavola

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2024, 12:29:10 pm »
These shortcuts make assumptions about which grenade you take and prime. Suppose there are multiple ones (like EMP grenades, gas grenades, regular grenades, dynamites, etc.) and they have been equipped at various locations on the soldier's body. Meridian's point was, I think, that implementing such shortcuts makes some assumptions and will in many situations (if there are many options to choose from) lead to unexpected results that players will be dissatisfied with.

Now, as a player, the only thing I would like to see more straightforward would be a way to eliminate the turn counter when priming the grenade. I have only seen it used once (in Stone Lake's XCF streams) and never used anything except 0 myself. IIRC BAI already does this.

As a player, when I'm using grenades extesively I usually preprime them when equipping the soldiers. Then using and throwing them is much faster and smoother (and you can throw 2 or 3 grenades per turn). But this is often only an applicable strategy in the early game. Later, when your soldiers improve you might switch away from these tactics. And don't want to preprime grenades later on because if the soldier gets knocked down, the grenades are going to go boom. So you'll also need to be careful with how you deploy your troops. Still, a valid strategy especially with sniper/spotter mods where you'll need to avoid shooting certain enemies.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Grenade shortcut
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2024, 01:01:09 pm »
I can easily remove the counter from grenades (and set it to 0 turns), but God knows how many people use the counter and would be sad to see it go.