Any special requirements to make gauss weapons?

[Moth_Of_Decay]

So I managed to find and research a few gauss weapons, however they don't show up in the manufacturing list. Are there any special requirements for making things like that - I checked to see if there was an advanced version of the workshop but didn't see anything.

[Juku121]

This is a kind of weird progression where you first find a Gauss weapon, then use it to develop Mass Driver weapons, and then get to make Gauss weapons. At least it's not as strict about it as it used to be, but you still need Mass Drivers before you can build Gauss stuff.

[zee_ra]

So I managed to find and research a few gauss weapons, however they don't show up in the manufacturing list. Are there any special requirements for making things like that - I checked to see if there was an advanced version of the workshop but didn't see anything.

The development of gauss weaponry requires some advanced tech.  In general, an easier transition is to tritanium munitions, and then directly into plasma.

[Moth_Of_Decay]

Weird, I actually found a mass driver pistol from some mission already. However peaking at the tech tree it looks like I might need UFO power first?

[zee_ra]

Weird, I actually found a mass driver pistol from some mission already. However peaking at the tech tree it looks like I might need UFO power first?

I think, for a full Gauss tech, you need an anti-matter containment.  This requires an alien leader, commander, or engineer interrogation.  In practice, a multiple of those.  This is a seriously powerful technology, and has much higher requirements than mere mass drivers.

As I mentioned, the mass drivers are at best on par with tritanium ammuniton enabled best BlackOps weapons, and those you could gain access to relatively early, through the BlackOps Premium access.  The more advanced laser tech is in general on par with the mass drivers.  The even more advanced BlackOps items, like e.g. their smart guns, are hardly worth it, since the edge is gained through the damage bonuses, and agents with low stats should not be on the battlefield in any other capacity other than combat training.

There are some laser items, like turbo-laser sniper rifle, that actually begin to be more competitive than the tritanium ammunition enabled BlackOps hardware.  This may be a good midpoint for you to converge your research on.  However, in my experience, the combination of tritanium enabled BlackOps hardware, with great artillery support (both mortar, ideally robotized by that time, and missile support, with occasional dire need for guided missiles), and heavy Psi amplifiers, allows one to consistently emerge victorious in all encounters, casualty-free, and to focus the research towards the acquisition of plasma weaponry.  The only other essential direction at that point is the earlier acquisition of cyber armor, and the due attention to the stun technologies.  Please note that the Psi is available relatively early, and it becomes an extreme force multiplier on the battlefield when taken advantage of properly.

By the time Gauss tech becomes available, the advanced plasma tech is already on the horizon.  The field Gauss weaponry is thus usually only useful as a trophy item in general.

[Moth_Of_Decay]

I find it somewhat sad how much the esoteric weapons get sidelined, given that the BlackOps stuff with improved ammunition feels so "meh" in the context of a sci-fi game full of weird paranromal stuff. However I am absolutely sleeping on Psi weapons in the early game, and I need to actually get into that. I just feel so weird about like... actually using flame gloves and such when I could just give someone another gun.

[zee_ra]

I find it somewhat sad how much the esoteric weapons get sidelined, given that the BlackOps stuff with improved ammunition feels so "meh" in the context of a sci-fi game full of weird paranromal stuff. However I am absolutely sleeping on Psi weapons in the early game, and I need to actually get into that. I just feel so weird about like... actually using flame gloves and such when I could just give someone another gun.

In practice, you do have a choice to employ whatever non-standard weaponry you choose with not un-reasonable efficiency.  However, for a highly professional spec-op force, the weapons with significant stat bonuses have an edge.  If you're playing out a role of a high tech, highly professional, black ops force, then the BlackOps ordinance is both the logical, rational, and correct choice, certainly for the first half of the game.  You do have an option to move into laser weaponry a bit earlier, with the turbo laser sniper refle, if you so desire.

[Juku121]

As I mentioned, the mass drivers are at best on par with tritanium ammuniton enabled best BlackOps weapons...

They are? I mean, they're heavy as fuck and much less ergonomic (more TUs to use, less accuracy than smartweapons), but most of them have significant damage increases (pistol: 40 vs 54, rifle: 40 with 10% armour piercing vs 70, heavy vs Heavy Cannon: 70 with 35% AP vs 100). The sniper seems to be the most clear upgrade, essentially a more mobile version of the Tactical Sniper Rifle.

I kinda wish mass drivers and Gauss weapons actually had some sort of 'realistic', unique trait. Like range, accuracy, serious armour penetration or mini-explosions due to KE transfer.

The even more advanced BlackOps items, like e.g. their smart guns, are hardly worth it, since the edge is gained through the damage bonuses, and agents with low stats should not be on the battlefield in any other capacity other than combat training.

More accuracy is still useful, giving you the ability to use more auto or snap shots.

By the time Gauss tech becomes available, the advanced plasma tech is already on the horizon.  The field Gauss weaponry is thus usually only useful as a trophy item in general.

Yeah. 

[zee_ra]

They are? I mean, they're heavy as fuck and much less ergonomic (more TUs to use, less accuracy than smartweapons), but most of them have significant damage increases (pistol: 40 vs 54, rifle: 40 with 10% armour piercing vs 70, heavy vs Heavy Cannon: 70 with 35% AP vs 100). The sniper seems to be the most clear upgrade, essentially a more mobile version of the Tactical Sniper Rifle.

Consider the following two BO items: Auto-Sniper Rifle and Minigun.  Even before getting TT munitions augmentation, they are more than capable to take down Mutons, Crocs, and Power Suit MiB troops.  After the TT munitions augmentation, they become much more reliable in that capacity.  Now, with harder enemies there's always a need to use some form of combined arms, and thus artillery / rocket support is essential in such scenarios.

The reason why these weapons are so effective is on the one hand damage bonus applied to the sniper weapon, based on the wielder's stats, and the sheer number of shots fired by the minigun.  Note that they only remain effective in the hands of a professional, i.e. a soldier with high accuracy and reaction stats.

I kinda wish mass drivers and Gauss weapons actually had some sort of 'realistic', unique trait. Like range, accuracy, serious armour penetration or mini-explosions due to KE transfer.

The mini-explosion for Gauss does not really make a physical sense.  Consider the old high-power rifle penetrating a target.  The body simply falls down in the direction of a shot, as if being mowed down.  The bullet enters and exits, leaving a hole, and creating a cavity in the course of its travel.

I thought, Gauss is being pretty good with armour penetration.  What scenario are you referring to?  The case of Juggernaut armor?

More accuracy is still useful, giving you the ability to use more auto or snap shots.

Auto shots only make sense in close quarters combat.  As a general rule, even with soldiers who have very high accuracy.  The snap shots are actually useful at longer distances by soldiers with very high accuracy rating.  An observation: the BO Auto-Sniper Rifle provides more than enough accuracy bonuses for effective uses of snap shots at longer distances.

Note that throughout the game, the use of yet-inaccessible trophy items makes tactical combat much, much more tractable.

Also, considering the case of more advanced kinetic weapons, their essential benefit is much higher damage bonus for the highly skilled professional soldier.  This helps immensely when confronted with greater enemy armour.  In practice, that means that only twice as much firepower is needed to crack e.g. a power suit, as opposed to making that a matter of sheer luck, and essentially dooming your troops.  Sometimes the artillery support is not possible in a given situation, and enemy must be handled head-on by a wall of fire.  The advanced kinetic weapons make this feasible.

[Juku121]

Consider the following two BO items: Auto-Sniper Rifle and Minigun.  Even before getting TT munitions augmentation, they are more than capable to take down Mutons, Crocs, and Power Suit MiB troops.

No argument about Mutons or Crocs. Power Suit: 80-90 armour, 115% kinetic resistance. ASR: 50-60 damage, 25% armour piercing, 50-200% damage range. So about 30-138 damage vs 60-68 armour. On average, that's about 20 damage per shot. You can maybe hit them twice per round and they have 40 HP, so it's borderline capable, but not 'more than capable'.

Miniguns have been virtually cheat mode for a long while now.

The mini-explosion for Gauss does not really make a physical sense.

It's a massive KE transfer. Look for some videos of the US Navy firing theirs, you'll find plenty of explosions. Hypervelocity weapons have their own rules and don't exactly work like conventional firearms.

Lasers should actually have mini-explosions, too, if they're meant to be anti-personnel weapons and not just a way to drill tiny holes into people (and aliens, cryptids, etc). Explosive vaporisation is a thing.

I thought, Gauss is being pretty good with armour penetration.  What scenario are you referring to?

The fact that all their armour penetration comes from damage. Gauss is good because the damage is so massive, Mass Drivers less so. Tritanium rifles have 10% damage penetration, MD and Gauss weapons have zero.

Auto shots only make sense in close quarters combat.

Machine guns and miniguns disagree. A Smartrifle can also work pretty well at 20-25 tiles if the soldier has 100+ accuracy.

An observation: the BO Auto-Sniper Rifle provides more than enough accuracy bonuses for effective uses of snap shots at longer distances.

Yeah. Which is a giant weak point for MD/Gauss weapons: a supposedly hypervelocity weapon that's firing ammo less subject to usual accuracy issues (wind, gravity, tall grass ) has pretty poor accuracy in-game.

Also, considering the case of more advanced kinetic weapons, their essential benefit is much higher damage bonus for the highly skilled professional soldier.

That only applies to the sniper versions, which are probably the most competitive among the lot.

Yes, MD/Gauss give you better armour penetration. But that's about it. They come with such big TU and accuracy 'penalties' compared to BO weapons that it's only worth it against the really heavily armoured enemies. Lasers, Pulse with chem, BO, Disruptors, all are much more comfortable to fire.

[Moth_Of_Decay]

Oof, that was a trip. Sent a crew to a hybrid embassy base, snatched an engineer and ran away. Engineer led me to UFO power, which gives me Mass Drivers... and I presume once that is complete I'll finally be on to Gauss! My goal is to have a crew outfitted with Gauss before the alien invasion proper, which is certainly looking possible right now.

On the subject of esoteric weapons having special effects - Lasers should blind the targets similar to a flashbang. (Yeah, in real life the blindness would be permanent but Aliens I guess.)

[krautbernd]

On the subject of esoteric weapons having special effects - Lasers should blind the targets similar to a flashbang.

Why? Unless you literally score a headshot that doesn't make sense, given that the aim of the weapons is specifically not to dazzle (i.e. wide unfocused beam) but to kill. You wouldn't want to dump all your energy over a wide area (i.e. whole body) but focus it.

[Juku121]

...and I presume once that is complete I'll finally be on to Gauss! My goal is to have a crew outfitted with Gauss before the alien invasion proper, which is certainly looking possible right now.

Don't think that's possible. You also need Laser Weapons (which are almost as good anyway) and Anti-Matter Containment (which comes out of the interrogation roulette, and even accessing said part of the roulette needs a whole bunch of stuff, including passing another go at said roulette).

[Moth_Of_Decay]

Why? Unless you literally score a headshot that doesn't make sense, given that the aim of the weapons is specifically not to dazzle (i.e. wide unfocused beam) but to kill. You wouldn't want to dump all your energy over a wide area (i.e. whole body) but focus it.

The slightest glint from a high powered laser is enough to cause permanent eye damage way before they are strong enough to be a rifle. If the laser technology in XCOM is strong enough to punch through flesh, the batteries are certainly powerful enough to create an instantly blinding zone of fuck-you-in-particular.

[Juku121]

...instantly blinding zone of fuck-you-in-particular.

If the beam is dispersed enough to make that viable, it's more like a cone of fuck-everyone-who-looks-that-way-in-general. So problematic if there are friendlies running around all over, as it happens in many scenarios.

Otherwise, can we change stats via scripts now? If not, this is all theoretical.