TFTD - dye grenades

[Kissaki]

I notice OpenXcom has integrated Zombie's dye grenade mod, which increases the damage from 10 to 60. There seems to be broad agreement that the original value was a mistake, that it rendered the dye grenade useless.

Personally, I disagree. I played the original TFTD extensively, and made good use of dye grenades. It's actually one of the things I found to be realistic - you need to give it time to work. The dye spreads with each turn, and in 4 or 5 turns the area covered is the same as the 60-power dye grenade. A gradual coverage, especially underwater, seems much more realistic to me than an instant big blanket. So the 10-power dye grenade is certainly not useless, and like I said I made good use of it myself.

So why not keep Zombie's mod, but as an option? Make the mod active by default, but please include the option to switch to the original value for old fogies like me who like to relive the original feel of the game as much as possible. It wasn't difficult to edit the values back to 10 myself, but doesn't it belong among the other bells and whistles you can turn on or off in the menu, though?

[BlackStaff]

Nothing prevents you from creating a mod with the value you want.
You will then be able to activate/deactivate it at will! 
See attachments !
Work fine in my OXCE !

[Kissaki]

Nothing prevents you from creating a mod with the value you want.

Well... except skill 

You will then be able to activate/deactivate it at will! 
See attachments !
Work fine in my OXCE !

Thanks, I'll check it as soon as I get home

[aziza]

OpenXcom creators talking about they almost as original game:

The goal of OXC and OXCE is to replicate the original Xcom, not any fan mods.

and what will any player see?
this? :

OpenXcom 1st turn after dye grenade exloded:


Original TFTD 0-3 turns after dye grenade exloded:

Nothing prevents you from creating a mod with the value you want.

Since when does the original balance of a game have to be adjusted by mods to be like original game?

TFTD is added in 2015, today is 2025

[Meridian]

Yes, we are bad people.

OpenXcom is totally not worth your time, we destroyed xcom beyond repair.

It will be best if you stop playing OpenXcom and return back to the true original.

Edit: PS: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Known_Bugs_(TFTD)#Battlescape_Bugs

[Ethereal]

Since when does the original balance of a game have to be adjusted by mods to be like original game?

There is no need to impose your opinion on us. If you don't like OpenXcom, play the original, which under MS DOS.

[hth]

Newbie question btw: why in TFTD dyed area have same movement penalty as mudded after generic explosions? Does this makes water denser?

[Kissaki]

Newbie question btw: why in TFTD dyed area have same movement penalty as mudded after generic explosions? Does this makes water denser?

Not denser as such, but I always rationalised it as having to move a bit more carefully because you cannot see where you're going. Well, you can see where your dudes are going, but they can't.

As for aziza's post, while it may be perceived as somewhat confrontational, I'm sure he didn't mean to step on any toes. And he does have a point (and as the thread starter I am, of course, completely unbiased). Old timers especially might like the nostalgia of playing XCOM as it originally was, warts and all. Most other improvements by OpenXCOM can be turned on/off in the mods menu, so it does feel a bit odd that this particular change should be forced. And Steam/DosBox are really not an option on modern systems, as the scroll speed makes it practically unplayable - in DosBox you can slow it down, but it will never be as it was on a good old 486.

Also, the ufopaedia entry is simply not correct: "Dye Grenades are to all intents and purposes, useless. Arguably not a bug, but it should not have survived basic playtesting. Weak weapons (eg Dart Gun) are one thing, but Dye Grenades are pointless because they never generate enough of a screen to block visibility. The best they would do is reduce alien visual range from 20 to 17. There would be a strong case to fix the strength of the Dye 'explosion' upward from 10 to 60 (like the Smoke Grenade) or at least 30-40."

As one can see from aziza's screenshots, they provide plenty cover - you just got to give them a little time, which is only realistic. It's not a bug, it's not an oversight. The fact that there is a spread dynamic tells us this was an intended feature.

Oh, and by the way, damage=60 means it reaches maximum spread immediately. At any lower setting I take it the dye will take 1-4 turns to spread to this level. Is there a way to modify this? Maximum range, turns to reach said range... As far as I'm aware, the dye grenade is the only item that has this dynamic at all. Fires certainly don't seem to spread the same way.