Weapon Suggestion: Gyrojets?

[Baton_Shells]

So, I've loved getting access to weird and obscure weapons as I've been doing the early game of the Files but I've not seen anything in game yet (or in the wiki) that refers to my favorite abandoned weapon design: The Gyrojet aka, the Bolter from warhammer 40k.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet

Gyrojet weapons were a new weapon system that was attempted in the 60s and then abandoned due to various technological constraints and budget concerns. Instead of firing a bullet (igniting the powder at the back of the barrel, creating a small explosion within the gun, and propelling a projectile from the force of the explosion driving it through rifling in order to impart spin and thus accuracy) Gyrojet weapons are basically model rocket engines with a pointy tip. The rocket is ignited within the barrel, once it exits the barrel diagonal vented ports start taking in air causing the rocket to spin gyroscopically, and the Gyrojet continues to increase in velocity during travel time until it hits its target.

The net result of this system is massively reduced recoil and an overall lighter weapon, the rocket engines don't cause anywhere near the kick of a similarly sized bullet and that allows you to slim down the gun because it suffers much less stress from firing the projectiles. Rifles, Carbines, and Pistols were manufactured, the rifles could theoretically fire at 60rpm but only had 6 round internal magazines. While not in development anymore, the pistols can still be found on the market (the rifles are much rarer)

The downsides of the system included unreliability, rushed development, long reload times given the small magazines, and relatively short effectuve range of 55 yards. The project was scrapped before the technology could be fully developed including scrapped variants for a Squad LMG, and an underwater variant designed to shoot flechettes. 

Access to Xcom's team of researchers and engineers could allow for the Gyrojet to see the light of day, especially with the addition of Tritanium bullets, elerium rocket fuel, and potentially even see the develpoment of the 40k Bolter when all is said and done. They're one of my favorite "abandoned" technologies so I'd enjoy seeing them get added in, perhaps in the Revived Weapons research?

PS: I just did the Magma Reactor defense vs the syndicate, was I meant to be given an item to fix during that mission? A lot of things blew up during the defense just from large bullet impacts hitting pipelines and I didn't get anything special after completion. I'm not sure if that counts as a successful defense or not. If someone can confirm that for me, that would be great.

[krautbernd]

The problem with weapons right now (or better, still) is that the pacing - at least for me - is all over the place. It might be just me, but I don't really use any of the many "early game" weapons all that much, and once you've dealt with the cults those / got promoted they get dropped in favor of BO anyway.

Where would the Gyrojet fit in, compared to Gauss/Rail and explosive weapons like LC/AC/HC? I mean options are always nice, but I'm not sure we need yet another weapon family. Maybe as a submod/as part of the Arsenal Additions submod?

[Baton_Shells]

Well, for one thing they're a lot lighter than the Cannons and they have next to no recoil, but they don't shoot a variety of ammunition. Just the rocket propelled slugs. Also, as mentioned, their range is somewhat poor at least from the base 60's technology.

As far as tech progression, they're a weapon time forgot so I'd put them in with revived weapons like the XM. So somewhere between promotion 2-3 for their initial grab and then you can engineer them up to comparable with BO/Magma tech. As far as Gauss/Rail, no where close. Those techs could provide upgrades to the Gyrojet weapons but they're 60s technology that badly needs an update, the idea is to make them more futuristic as you advance in tech; not that they're inherently futuristic.

There's an argument that they could be crossbow upgrades, make them more cutting than kinetic though to be honest thats more the Lancejet's thing (the underwater capable variant).

And I for one really like the variety of gear options available. I am using almost exclusively Black Ops weapons at the moment and it would be fun to have something else that I could try to mainline.

EDIT: One of the biggest uses I could see for Gyrojet weapons entering the game is as a low weight option for Rookies to carry (or Veteran Medic/Grenadiers) to carry as a primary weapon. The low ammo count alongside their moderate accuracy at low ranges would make them perfect as an alternative to just slapping every rookie with a Black Ops assault rifle/CAWS

[Baton_Shells]

Also, just watched Tremors 1, 2, and 3 on a friend's suggestion.

Remote Controlled Cars with dynamite strapped to them would be a hilarious "early game Blaster Launcher"

[FireStarTracer]

Gyrojets had problems apart from manufacturing issues.   A big problem is that the velocity on exiting the barrel is low and doesn't reach optimal speed until some ~10m (for the gyrojet pistol.)    That greatly impairs lethality at close ranges (for pistols) and can adversely affect external ballistics (accuracy) given that low initial speed.    From what I understand thats why gyrojets have never taken off even though some proposals to revive the concept exist online.

The closest I could imagine you get to gyrojets (or emulating bolters) would be with the lower-caliber grenade launchers like the old XM-25 25mm grenade launcher, the 20mm off the OICW, or the Neopup PAW-20, a semi-auto 20mm Grenade launcher or the Barret XM-109 25mm 'payload rifle'.   You might imagine that such weapons could evolve into 'grenade pistols' and compact RPG weapons in the 20-25mm range, as well as being a homage to Flash-Gordon style 'rocket pistols' or something like a bolter.   

Comparable weapons in X-piratez might be the Spitfire or LACC (or a pistol variant of both).   You might conceive of a standalone weapon that resembles the PAW-20 and uses an OICW clip for example (or just borrow the LACC or Spitfire above.)

Of course, krautbernd made a good point.  There's already so many weapons that we are saturated with choice and not much reason to use many of them except personal preference.. so why add more?   There are ways you might address this (stat based power/accuracy bonuses like in XCF or XP for example) but that would still require someone to do the work (including balancing.)

There's far, far more exotic or gimmicky weapons that have been invented than just gyrojets (SPIW or the Steyr ACR, the TExtron Poly-Case telescope rifle in the ongoing NGSW trials, etc.) but it would still run into the same problems.   

Also nitpick:  Bolters aren't really gyrojets.  Gyrojets are smoothbore and have those ports in the side of the gun to allow pressure to escape.   Bolters don't have side ports, and are rifled (there's a cutaway from the 3rd edition core rules on one of the wikis and it specifies that the storm bolter in question used a rifled barrel.) 

[Praevasc]

Can the engine make them cause less damage at short range and more damage at long range? I though it's only possible to give accuracy bonuses and penalties depending on the range.

[Finnik]

I think with YS it's possible

[FireStarTracer]

You could design it to be sort of a shotgun/GL at short range (shotgun and grenade loads at shorter ranges) whilst the 'gyrojet' ammo gives it long range advantages (guided shells, AP sniping rounds, etc.) meaning its sort of a hybrid Shotgun, 20mm grenade launcher, and sniper/antimaterial rifle.  I still think you'd run into problems with what sort of niche it would fill.  Possibly some sort of multi-role sniping weapon.   I still feel like some sort of 'pocket GL to Flash gordon rocket pistol/rifle' is probably better than trying to muck around making it a gyrojet.   It might also tenatively be useful in zero gee missions but I'm not sure it would be better than lasers or other energy weapons. 

This thread has tenatively gotten me interested in creating new weapons for XCF since I'm still playing that.   My first efforts have so far yielded an X-com version of the Halo MA5 and the Aliens pulse rifle.  They're not remotely well-balanced, there are still some (non fatal) bugs, and the sprites are crude and ugly for the pulse rifle (I borrowed for the MA5 and that went quicker)  but as small sub-mods they kinda worked.   They'll need more polish, but I'm tempted to try other ideas in the meantime.  For example, I'd like to replicate some US experimental weapons like from the ACR program or the ongoing NGSW even though those would just be more 'gimmicky' weapons.   A more ambitious attempt might be to try to replicate the concepts that lead to US 'moon base' or space travel efforts like Project Orion (nuclear propelled large spacecraft - used as an anti-alien weapon in the novel 'Footfall') and Project Horizon (Space soldiers on a lunar moon base, complete with exotic weapons and more nukes.)   Some of that might be better for the IDT mods than XCF though since that's more their flavor, but part of me likes the idea of X-com reviving Orion as their crude attempt at spacecraft before alien tech gives them more options.   But I'm a LONG way from creating new craft I think.

Depending on time, mood and how well some of the lesser experiments go I may try to make a 'grenade pistol' or 'grenade rifle' like I described above, too.  I've also got some tenative ideas (based on stuff used in x-Piratez and off the Doom content like the UAC rifle) where you can develop 'multiplex' ammo (Basically a cartridge that has multiple smaller bullets stacked on top  - turning a pistol, rifle, or machine in a sense into a shotgun because it fires multiple bullets with a single 'shot')   That was part of alot of past US weapons improvement efforts (see Project SALVO) but it also produced even odder versions (see Salvo-Squeezebore)

I'd also like to toy around with the 40K mod and try tweaking things, including some more weapon/ammo options for the Guard (Basically add stuff from 40k lore I always liked like from the Fantasy Flight Games RPGs) so I might start splitting time between OCF and that.

[Solarius Scorch]

Well, at least there's the recoilless gun...