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Author Topic: Grenade launcher too op?  (Read 6121 times)

Offline Mr. Quiet

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Grenade launcher too op?
« on: May 30, 2016, 08:59:09 pm »
The last time I played, I saw how much more progress I was making in the game when I downloaded the GL mod. I love it, because you can shoot from a distance over a wall or trees and still hit your mark. Can't be indoors with artillery, which is the only negative I can think of. So kills rack up with these guys. My first pick is always artillery over my rookie riflemen. That's modern warfare. Artillery wrecks everything and gun fights are mostly fought at long distances between each other if anyone has played a simulation like Arma or PR. Without heavy weapons, we'd shoot the hell out of a farmhouse before inching closer.

Now I know what you're thinking, but I do want to keep this mod in my arsenal as everyone else would. Here's the question. What can we nerf to keep the GL balanced, to have its place in a squad without being more dominant than the others? At least not for a rookie. Increase ammo size? Give it a lower accuracy? Make it heavier? Less range(nah)? Increase ammo costs? You can say that the council wants the least amount a property damage done, so they raise prices on GL explosive ammo, but not for smoke and incendiary hahaha.

Back in my day, we used to throw 'nades before considering long shots. Nothing wrong with that, as you'd have to plan your TU's for priming and throws. GL's I understand are made to be easier to use, or else they'd have no place in the field, just consider this is a game, so realism is awesome, but we can have a little bit of unrealistic fun factor too, or fear factor here and there.

I ask in a way to help take away my mindset of almost always having a third man as a storage for ammo, because I've become dependent on using my grenadiers for more and more tasks. So what sayeth you?

This is the mod in question: https://www.openxcom.com/mod/grenade-launcher

If you agree or disagree, please comment and help a brother out with this. Thanks!

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Grenade launcher too op?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2016, 09:20:01 pm »
Everybody agreed that this is OP. Power 50 would be much more in par with the rest of the "contemporary weapons" of vanilla UFO, 40 would be more reasonable to balance with the high accuracy and high shooting speeds.

Offline hellrazor

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Re: Grenade launcher too op?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2016, 10:46:30 pm »
As i integrated the grenade Launcher into the Hardmode Expansion i adapted its core values.
Values see Screenshot, i also reduced the Blastradius from the explosions of the grenades to 4.

Ruleset looks like this:
Code: [Select]
#BEGIN GRENADE LAUNCHER
  - type: STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER
    size: 0.2
    costBuy: 5000
    costSell: 2250
    weight: 8
    bigSprite: 152
    floorSprite: 149
    handSprite: 448
    fireSound: 105
    compatibleAmmo:
      - STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER_HE_AMMO
      - STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER_IC_AMMO
      - STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER_SMOKE_AMMO
    accuracySnap: 50
    accuracyAimed: 100
    tuSnap: 40
    tuAimed: 75
    battleType: 1
    twoHanded: true
    invWidth: 1
    invHeight: 3
    armor: 20
    arcingShot: true
    listOrder: 3001
    snapRange: 24
    dropoff: 10
  - type: STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER_HE_AMMO
    size: 0.1
    costBuy: 200
    costSell: 150
    weight: 3
    bigSprite: 153
    floorSprite: 150
    handSprite: 472
    bulletSprite: 13
    hitSound: 0
    hitAnimation: 0
    power: 60
    damageType: 3
    clipSize: 1
    battleType: 2
    blastRadius: 4
    armor: 20
    listOrder: 3002
  - type: STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER_IC_AMMO
    size: 0.1
    costBuy: 600
    costSell: 400
    weight: 3
    bigSprite: 154
    floorSprite: 151
    handSprite: 480
    bulletSprite: 14
    hitSound: 0
    hitAnimation: 0
    power: 60
    damageType: 2
    clipSize: 1
    battleType: 2
    blastRadius: 4
    armor: 20
    listOrder: 3003
  - type: STR_GRENADE_LAUNCHER_SMOKE_AMMO
    size: 0.1
    costBuy: 300
    costSell: 200
    weight: 3
    bigSprite: 155
    floorSprite: 152
    handSprite: 488
    bulletSprite: 15
    hitSound: 0
    hitAnimation: 56
    power: 60
    damageType: 9
    clipSize: 1
    battleType: 2
    blastRadius: 4
    armor: 20
    listOrder: 3004
#END GRENADE LAUNCHER

The weaponpower it has is still enough to kill some close together sectoids, but it only makes relatively small holes into farmhouses.

EDIT: noone so far complained about it being overpowered.

EDIT2: The TU usage is balanced around shooting two snapshots, which are unprecise, but do the deal, when your solider has 80 TU and didn't move. Otherwise its aimed shoot and reload.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 11:48:31 pm by hellrazor »

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Grenade launcher too op?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2016, 11:31:36 pm »
Mega-oops : The screenshot is very, very outdated.
In the standalone mod, Explosive grenades do have power 50 and blastradius 5 (?)
Snap: 60% Acc, 33%TU
Aimed: 80% Acc, 50%TU

Offline hellrazor

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Re: Grenade launcher too op?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2016, 11:45:32 pm »
Mega-oops : The screenshot is very, very outdated.
In the standalone mod, Explosive grenades do have power 50 and blastradius 5 (?)
Snap: 60% Acc, 33%TU
Aimed: 80% Acc, 50%TU

The screenshot is from the adaption of the standalne GL mod in my Expansion Mod.
So its not outdated.

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Grenade launcher too op?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2016, 01:43:47 am »
Sorry hellrazor, I am still talking if the original mod by Warboy (linked in first post). The screenshot on the mod portal shows grenades with power 70 and 80, but the second was actually a smoke grenade (buggy openxcom showed "HE") and the first one was nerfed.

Offline hellrazor

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Re: Grenade launcher too op?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2016, 01:49:14 am »
Sorry hellrazor, I am still talking if the original mod by Warboy (linked in first post). The screenshot on the mod portal shows grenades with power 70 and 80, but the second was actually a smoke grenade (buggy openxcom showed "HE") and the first one was nerfed.

Jeah indeed the original mods has some silly values regarding damage and explosion range and yes i considered it also overpowered that why i adapted it. And the values i choose actually work quite well.

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Grenade launcher too op?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2016, 02:58:11 am »
Indeed, I do prefer your choice of making it a "slow-fire" weapon.

Offline hellrazor

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Re: Grenade launcher too op?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2016, 07:02:20 am »
Indeed, I do prefer your choice of making it a "slow-fire" weapon.

The aimed shot actually also does now increase chances to hit, due to the cost of only being able to fire once per turn.
But putting a low accuracy soldier at the Grenade launcher and let him kill 2-3 aliens per mission and you do get your next sniper pretty quickly :)

Offline Slaughter

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Re: Grenade launcher too op?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2016, 03:18:23 am »
Have you tried using the new terrains?

Because I play with FMP which has both GL and new terrains. The new terrain seems to be tailor-made to avoid grenade cheese - more slopes make it harder to simply use the grenade launcher like a mortar, and lots of trees in forested terrain are hell for grenadiers. Sometimes I switch my GL for a auto-cannon or heavy cannon when I know the terrain is bad for it.