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Author Topic: X-com Apocalypse  (Read 96388 times)

Offline Daiky

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2011, 12:46:39 am »
Ok, I now have played it too.... and even though it has good ideas in it. There are lots of things that makes it not so enjoyable as x-com 1&2

The game was great fun actually.  You just have to forget about X-Com1&2.


Ok, that last one is actually the hardest part :)

I think the posts of pmprog and alienjon describe the same feeling I have about apoc.

Offline hellblade

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2011, 05:05:24 pm »
too true, but there are core ideas that aimed to improve & expand X-Com1&2 were on the right track

1) expand geoscape to allow multiple craft battles, not just 1 ufo against 4 x-com crafts
2) expand battlescape to allow multiple craft to enter the same battle
3) expand battlescape width depth and height
4) perfecting the transfer and buy&sell screens
5) saving equipment according to soldiers and not crafts

4&5 we already have in openxcom.  And for 1, just imagine that multiple ufos battle multiple crafts at the same time.  It could be 2d with just diagrams, something like the radar in Independence Day.
And if our battlescape was large enough.  We could incorporate large city maps (both xcom1&2 tiles) and have terror missions featuring 2 ufos.  Like a Terror Ship and Battleship attacking the same city.  And we could deploy more than 1 craft.

The programming should not be hard ... nevermind, I'm dreaming too much, lol

Offline Templayer

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2011, 07:42:34 am »
I also love the original X-Com: Enemy Unknown, but X-Com 3: Apocalypse was great ! As said previously, you just have to turn on the realtime combat and play. For me it qualifies as a full X-Com game.

What do you all think of the UFO After-series? I hated Afterlight for two reasons:
1) The entire game is on a time limit
2) Cartoony graphics (compared to Aftershock)
I take Aftermath as a average game, due the biomass crap and also the game going from extremely easy in the first half, to almost unplayable in the second (rather slowly, starting with special story missions)
Hovewer, there has been a mod (I've played it like before 4 years) that changed Aftermath into X-Com: Enemy Unknown (no, I do not mean UFO: Extraterrestrials or any other game ..), with fully 3D rendered Etherals (with capes, wohooo) and stuff with superhuman difficulty (lets say you are a band of survivors with several pistols,rifles and steel pipes, and an army of sectoids, floaters etc with plasma guns and blaster launchers is standing against you ..... let's just say you will have alot of casualties). I will maybe post a link to this mod if is somebody interested (and if I can find it)

And the best UFO strategic game in my opinion? UFO AFTERSHOCK WITH TONS OF MODS.
Seriously, the graphics are great, everything is allright, paced right ... used mods to add alot of real-life weapons and many sci-fi ones etc .... the only thing that bothered me was psionics (useless in Aftershock) and the guy doing Weapon Rebalance mod (that rebalanced absolutely everything including making better wargots and solving some bugs and glitches) stopped doing it, and the next thing in his list to do in his new version was to make better psionics, psionics weapons, etc. Dammit. The Shock game didn't have as many patches (Math had 1.4 ; Light had 1.5 + 1.6 official fanbased but Shock has only 1.2) as the original creators wanted to make it really like UFO:Defense, having sooo much things in it, but they got bankrupt :-(  because of that.

So my favorite UFO games:
1) UFO: Aftershock
2) UFO: Defense (X-Com: Enemy Unknown)
3) X-Com: Apocalypse
4) UFO: Aftermath and Afterlight (both had their faults)
[I haven't played Extraterrestrials or any of the spin off games like Interceptor and Alliance]

And now the main reason Afterlight sucked - NO CUSTOM NAMES WHATSOEVER !
Among other things like fairly limited soldier pool etc, etc.
The main reason why Aftershock sucked for most people - Extremely glitchy and crashy, could crash anytime, even the most up-to-date version had bugs that could randomly prevent finishing the game (the mothership bug, the starghost bug, the acces item by raiding a cultist temple bug) ...
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 08:06:03 am by Templayer »

Offline hellblade

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2011, 07:16:36 pm »
rofl, be careful ranking anything without X-Com1 on the top.  You might get skinned alive ... here or in other websites.

As for me, I believe everybody has different opinions because people are just different so nobody's right or wrong.   For me, the atmosphere in the new series was just not as engaging as the original.

I keep saying to people, nobody makes games with their hearts poured into the design anymore.  Games like Baldur's Gate2 is like a piece of artwork.  Games like Dragon Age is obviously made for money making.  Even WoW is no where as perfect as older Blizzard games, because it's been designed with a different purpose.  What else da ya expect?

And if you scrutinize X-Com like you scrutinize artwork, there's really not much you can complain about it.  For example, look at the "countries" in X-Com2.  The designers predicted the European Union years ahead of it's time!  They predicted that Taiwan would never reunite with China before 2039, and it looks to be true!  It's all these little bits that makes an observer (of an artwork) appreciate and indulge in the game completely.  It's like reading a Crichton novel - you know it's science fiction, but damn does it feel like it's real.

And what we strive to do here?  This is artwork.  It's restoring lost art because the owners (2000 Mxxxn) are uncultured swine.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 07:28:26 pm by hellblade »

Offline Templayer

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2011, 10:23:09 pm »
rofl, be careful ranking anything without X-Com1 on the top.  You might get skinned alive ... here or in other websites.

As for me, I believe everybody has different opinions because people are just different so nobody's right or wrong.   For me, the atmosphere in the new series was just not as engaging as the original.

I keep saying to people, nobody makes games with their hearts poured into the design anymore.  Games like Baldur's Gate2 is like a piece of artwork.  Games like Dragon Age is obviously made for money making.  Even WoW is no where as perfect as older Blizzard games, because it's been designed with a different purpose.  What else da ya expect?

And if you scrutinize X-Com like you scrutinize artwork, there's really not much you can complain about it.  For example, look at the "countries" in X-Com2.  The designers predicted the European Union years ahead of it's time!  They predicted that Taiwan would never reunite with China before 2039, and it looks to be true!  It's all these little bits that makes an observer (of an artwork) appreciate and indulge in the game completely.  It's like reading a Crichton novel - you know it's science fiction, but damn does it feel like it's real.

And what we strive to do here?  This is artwork.  It's restoring lost art because the owners (2000 Mxxxn) are uncultured swine.

Yeah the reason X-Com 1 wasn't on top of my list was probably the AI, pathing of units, and so much losing soldiers. I like having one set of soldiers, which I level up, the entire game and that was really hard to do with X-Com 1 ... I don't mind some casualties, but it was soo random in X-Com 1 .., like when my soldier misses at point black range (I thought it was impossible beforehand) and friendly fire shoots other guy standing beside the alien (WTF ... I was soo sure it wasn't possible in the game engine, LOL)

You just need not to compare the atmospheres of X-Com and Ufo: AFterseries ... Afterseries was like your group being equal to aliens, and fighting them equally, resisting .... but X-Com was full of despair and fear of unknown ... you must not compare them to enjoy them both !!!

Also loved bullet time in Afterseries ... being able to watch the action but still be able to think about everything thrice before doing so and give commands.

The Baldurs Gate series was really great, like the other Infinity games (Icewind Dale, Planescape Torment) and Neverwinter Nights series, Fallout 1+2, The Fall, Earth 2150: The Moon Project (a strategy, LOL), Fallout Online: 2238 (nice MMO game, check my youtube channel for my LP of it - browse youtube for Templayer FOnline ) Arcanum, The Temple of Elemental Evil, Jagged Alliance ... so many good games out there ! I'm going to LP them all !

Dragon Age 1 was rather good, but it was limited compared to BG, and the options were like Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil and Chaotic Neutral .... nothing else :-( , I wished for DA 2 to be less limited, but instead they limited it even more and now it sucks a**.

Anyway, I enjoy such conversation, I like to share my gourman opinion, and to read the opinions of others (if they aren't like "YOu suck, the game <insert game name here> is tha best !!")

Offline Daiky

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2011, 11:20:46 pm »
Yeah the reason X-Com 1 wasn't on top of my list was probably the AI, pathing of units, and so much losing soldiers. I like having one set of soldiers, which I level up, the entire game and that was really hard to do with X-Com 1 ... I don't mind some casualties, but it was soo random in X-Com 1 .., like when my soldier misses at point black range (I thought it was impossible beforehand) and friendly fire shoots other guy standing beside the alien (WTF ... I was soo sure it wasn't possible in the game engine, LOL)
Maybe OpenXCom will become top of your list then, because the annoying "bugs" you name there are solved in OpenXCom. :p

Offline Templayer

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2011, 06:41:12 am »
Maybe OpenXCom will become top of your list then, because the annoying "bugs" you name there are solved in OpenXCom. :p

THATS THE REASON WHY I AM HERE, LoL ! :D

Anyway, check my AMV fan video called A Tribute to Enemy Unknown (HD AMV) !

Offline Istrebitel

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2011, 12:43:35 pm »
Apocalypse was very good game idea that lacked polish/balance.

The game had very interesting cityscape fighting.
Very interesting battlescape fighting.
Very interesting item progression (with stealth fields, energy shields, teleporters, and personal anti-alien weapons...)

What it lacked - simply balance

* Organisations got pissed very easilly, coupled with that you can ONLY get crucial wares from ONE organisation (only transtellar will transport your items and personell, only megapol will sell you heavy armor, only marsec will sell you light armor, only nutrivend will sell you medikits...) this made it really annoying to fight aliens in cityscape. You basically could not afford to fight them after certain time into the game, unless you start by expanding to max engineer count and start mass manufacturing for profit to fuel your bribes. Boring, annoying, and stupid
* Organisations relationships were flawed in that "enemy of my enemy if my friend" made the city very soon turn into two big alliances. At start only some organisations are at war, but then they start liking other orgs that harm their enemies, and so on and so forth and then the whole city is divided. Problem is ALIENS also are an organisation. What this means is that the more aliens deal damage to the city, the more organisations hating those who receive damage start LIKING aliens. I had both megapol and government allied with aliens just because overspawn seriously pwned their opponent's buildings. THat was insane!
* Weapon balance at start was comparable to X-Com1 where you also use select one or two type of guns with addition of some heavy weaponry perhaps, but was very annoying because of limited clip supply - you had to stock worser weapons just because your favorite's ammo supply was out
* Weapon balance later was too screwed by the allmighty toxigun, which only came in one variety. At least they could have made it in a sniper variant in addition to the minigun variant (that looks like pistol but fires faster than marsec minigun!...)
* Excessive use of explosives by aliens freqeuntly dictated the squad tactics. Since aliens liked to throw grenades right in your face, corner ambushes and close quarters combat in general meant you will get close to no loot from a battle - since one unlucky grenade will screw everything. This also meant you couldnt afford to have those rockets hit walls - had to lure and even take the hit instead to save loot (!).
* Alien item progression was not balanced. The idea of score making aliens bring new items was good, but the idea of speeding it up on superhuman made aliens go almost instantly from devastator through shield, stealth, vortex to entropy. Which wouldnt be a problem if entropy wouldnt be completely negated by shields. This meant that if you're lucky to research shields before they get it - its easy, if not - its insanely hard.
* Shields overall made your squad nearly invincible and changed tactics considerably. Carrying two shields and throwing away one in case its almost depleted meant you could withstand even rocket fire. From the moment you got shields no soldiers never had hit point loss till probably last game missions.
* Personal teleporters were so imbalanced it allowed you to finish all alien buildings in one real life hour. Aliens were completely not using them to their advantage, and you could just destroy aliens by having more than one on person and doing blink-in and blink-out.
* Money balance was also screwed - in the beginning you have very hard time affording anything, and once you researched biotransport you have like infinite money. Its not even remotely comparable to laser canons of X-Com1 - this was just insane amount of money, enough for you to start bribing whole city to be allied to you.

Overall, the game idea, engine, variety of items, storyline, idea of having 10 distinct endgame missions was great. Balance was not. It could easilly be fixed, and attempts were made, but nothing could fix the endgame where you just dominated aliens like crazy (their toughest unit could go down from toxin c without a single shot done by it - compare it to fucking superhuman sectopods...)

Offline Templayer

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2011, 01:09:56 pm »
Apocalypse was very good game idea that lacked polish/balance.

The game had very interesting cityscape fighting.
Very interesting battlescape fighting.
Very interesting item progression (with stealth fields, energy shields, teleporters, and personal anti-alien weapons...)

What it lacked - simply balance

* Organisations got pissed very easilly, coupled with that you can ONLY get crucial wares from ONE organisation (only transtellar will transport your items and personell, only megapol will sell you heavy armor, only marsec will sell you light armor, only nutrivend will sell you medikits...) this made it really annoying to fight aliens in cityscape. You basically could not afford to fight them after certain time into the game, unless you start by expanding to max engineer count and start mass manufacturing for profit to fuel your bribes. Boring, annoying, and stupid
* Organisations relationships were flawed in that "enemy of my enemy if my friend" made the city very soon turn into two big alliances. At start only some organisations are at war, but then they start liking other orgs that harm their enemies, and so on and so forth and then the whole city is divided. Problem is ALIENS also are an organisation. What this means is that the more aliens deal damage to the city, the more organisations hating those who receive damage start LIKING aliens. I had both megapol and government allied with aliens just because overspawn seriously pwned their opponent's buildings. THat was insane!
* Weapon balance at start was comparable to X-Com1 where you also use select one or two type of guns with addition of some heavy weaponry perhaps, but was very annoying because of limited clip supply - you had to stock worser weapons just because your favorite's ammo supply was out
* Weapon balance later was too screwed by the allmighty toxigun, which only came in one variety. At least they could have made it in a sniper variant in addition to the minigun variant (that looks like pistol but fires faster than marsec minigun!...)
* Excessive use of explosives by aliens freqeuntly dictated the squad tactics. Since aliens liked to throw grenades right in your face, corner ambushes and close quarters combat in general meant you will get close to no loot from a battle - since one unlucky grenade will screw everything. This also meant you couldnt afford to have those rockets hit walls - had to lure and even take the hit instead to save loot (!).
* Alien item progression was not balanced. The idea of score making aliens bring new items was good, but the idea of speeding it up on superhuman made aliens go almost instantly from devastator through shield, stealth, vortex to entropy. Which wouldnt be a problem if entropy wouldnt be completely negated by shields. This meant that if you're lucky to research shields before they get it - its easy, if not - its insanely hard.
* Shields overall made your squad nearly invincible and changed tactics considerably. Carrying two shields and throwing away one in case its almost depleted meant you could withstand even rocket fire. From the moment you got shields no soldiers never had hit point loss till probably last game missions.
* Personal teleporters were so imbalanced it allowed you to finish all alien buildings in one real life hour. Aliens were completely not using them to their advantage, and you could just destroy aliens by having more than one on person and doing blink-in and blink-out.
* Money balance was also screwed - in the beginning you have very hard time affording anything, and once you researched biotransport you have like infinite money. Its not even remotely comparable to laser canons of X-Com1 - this was just insane amount of money, enough for you to start bribing whole city to be allied to you.

Overall, the game idea, engine, variety of items, storyline, idea of having 10 distinct endgame missions was great. Balance was not. It could easilly be fixed, and attempts were made, but nothing could fix the endgame where you just dominated aliens like crazy (their toughest unit could go down from toxin c without a single shot done by it - compare it to fucking superhuman sectopods...)

Yeah, the X-Com: Apocalypse did need alot of polishing (very much as UFO: Aftershock, which had bugs that could cause you to start all over again, the entire game), but as you said, it is still a nice game. I think it is because they lost alot of time doing a new engine (instead of using the one from the first and second game) and so they couldn't balance alot of things. Isn't there a mod around which rebalances, and "polishes" the game? On strategycore ? Should I PM you a link if I find one ?

Offline blackwolf

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2014, 08:33:18 am »
hi..sorry for resurrecting the post!..i totally agree with you...apoc is a nice game and need and they needed a little of polish and care...i dont like that style they took...and dont misunderstood i love that "OPTIMISTIC RETRO-FUTURE" of the fallout saga(one of my fav game beside xcom) but here...is i dont know...silly...or dumbest i dont know how to explain it...the more lacking thing i found...was variability...only three armors(i love the "individual part system" tho)some little weapons,and the best weapon in the game is just a overpowered small sidegun,and a couple of aliens are not good enough :c


* Organisations relationships were flawed in that "enemy of my enemy if my friend" made the city very soon turn into two big alliances. At start only some organisations are at war, but then they start liking other orgs that harm their enemies, and so on and so forth and then the whole city is divided. Problem is ALIENS also are an organisation. What this means is that the more aliens deal damage to the city, the more organisations hating those who receive damage start LIKING aliens. I had both megapol and government allied with aliens just because overspawn seriously pwned their opponent's buildings. THat was insane!...

uhmm i dont think this is correct...actually the organisations becomes hostiles from aliens  (i get the cult of sirius FRIENDLY because a crazy overspawn come there a destroy two of their temples  :o )


i love the fact that suckers come so early...i mean...the first time i was like...ohhh loook thas pretty little harmless blue aliens :3...i guess they are  the ol' floaters chumps of this game.....wait....oh dear ....

well if anyone want to play it...i have it right now i guess someones had problems running in dosbox(i did :c) but i have a original copie(a cd-rom i mean) so a good friend was tired i call her every time i want to run the game so we took the cd,make a ISO(actually is a bin archive) so she create a CONF  archive and a couple of dll((grabing a little of help from the good google)and make a "unpack and run" folder for me (you dont need to do anything,even doosbox...just unpack and run it...without pain...headache..just click and play xD) ,i can upload it here for you and also a couple of good mods that makes the game much more playable,if you want to try it(i  read the game  become freeware a couple of years ago...and also i buyed(actually my older brother did it) a original copy not so long time ago so i think this is legal right?)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 08:50:35 am by blackwolf »

Offline pmprog

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2014, 02:45:38 pm »
i can upload it here for you and also a couple of good mods that makes the game much more playable,if you want to try it(i  read the game  become freeware a couple of years ago...and also i buyed(actually my older brother did it) a original copy not so long time ago so i think this is legal right?)
You are mistaken. XCOM Apoc is not freeware, and uploading it would be breaking copyright laws

Offline Templayer

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2014, 03:20:01 pm »
You are mistaken. XCOM Apoc is not freeware, and uploading it would be breaking copyright laws

X-Com Apocalypse itself is not, but he can upload the launcher he made with his friend freely, same goes for the mods.

hi..sorry for resurrecting the post!..i totally agree with you...apoc is a nice game and need and they needed a little of polish and care...i dont like that style they took...and dont misunderstood i love that "OPTIMISTIC RETRO-FUTURE" of the fallout saga(one of my fav game beside xcom) but here...is i dont know...silly...or dumbest i dont know how to explain it...the more lacking thing i found...was variability...only three armors(i love the "individual part system" tho)some little weapons,and the best weapon in the game is just a overpowered small sidegun,and a couple of aliens are not good enough :c


* Organisations relationships were flawed in that "enemy of my enemy if my friend" made the city very soon turn into two big alliances. At start only some organisations are at war, but then they start liking other orgs that harm their enemies, and so on and so forth and then the whole city is divided. Problem is ALIENS also are an organisation. What this means is that the more aliens deal damage to the city, the more organisations hating those who receive damage start LIKING aliens. I had both megapol and government allied with aliens just because overspawn seriously pwned their opponent's buildings. THat was insane!...

uhmm i dont think this is correct...actually the organisations becomes hostiles from aliens  (i get the cult of sirius FRIENDLY because a crazy overspawn come there a destroy two of their temples  :o )


i love the fact that suckers come so early...i mean...the first time i was like...ohhh loook thas pretty little harmless blue aliens :3...i guess they are  the ol' floaters chumps of this game.....wait....oh dear ....

well if anyone want to play it...i have it right now i guess someones had problems running in dosbox(i did :c) but i have a original copie(a cd-rom i mean) so a good friend was tired i call her every time i want to run the game so we took the cd,make a ISO(actually is a bin archive) so she create a CONF  archive and a couple of dll((grabing a little of help from the good google)and make a "unpack and run" folder for me (you dont need to do anything,even doosbox...just unpack and run it...without pain...headache..just click and play xD) ,i can upload it here for you and also a couple of good mods that makes the game much more playable,if you want to try it(i  read the game  become freeware a couple of years ago...and also i buyed(actually my older brother did it) a original copy not so long time ago so i think this is legal right?)

I am interested in these mods. Could you upload them here? With a description on what they do ?
Also, as was said previously, the game is not freeware as of yet. (however because you can't buy it in Czech Republic, I don't give a damn about pirating it myself). I don't need the copy or the launcher, but you could upload the launcher here (with a tutorial) for other people like you.

Offline blackwolf

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2014, 08:13:19 pm »
oooooooooooooh okey okey i get it i get it, yikes i was wrong then...well the dll was modified from some patch to running in xp so they now make "apoc" portable (like the collectors gold edition from the xcom 1 and 2) and the conf was made by my friend so i can give you those...and the mods are a recopilation of a intensive searching in the web xD...mostly from strategy core (kind of fun is that one of the best is allocated in the ufowikia page too xD) okey so i'll translate it to english and then try to explain it for your...
by now what we do(in a nutshell) was :

1.Make a .bin and .cue of my cdrom

2.then make a folder with our "homemade" patch and also one folder with the bin image and also the root folder of the game...

3.and...yes...weell that is all...the config run using a .bat file who get the game running with a route who only needs the "cd game" and the main folder

i would explain better how we did it but the only thing i do was keep asking her for one hour "ITS DONE YET?"  xD, i suspect that this should work with a STEAM VERSION of the game...give me a minutes and i put the "patch+mods" ok?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 08:30:53 pm by blackwolf »

Offline LouisdeFuines

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2014, 08:55:00 pm »
For me, I loved that game :-)

Offline blackwolf

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Re: X-com Apocalypse
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2014, 09:33:37 pm »
okey dont expect so much...there are basically seven mods..(well two are the same but need to install both of their own to get all the "things" and two are tools set for editing savegame and so make your own adjust...think about it just like when you adjust the RULESET here in oxc)

they are basically rebalance mods...make the game a looooooooot more playable in turn base mode,make the organization a little less angry for stray shoots (at least do you really make a massive damage on their buildings) and also...do you remember how easy it was that your almighty powerfull tank....get destroyed because the Road tile was so fragile? well it fix that making the ground vehicle more usefull, a little tweaks on the weapons so they become more usefull,a lot of rebalance of the toxiguns (the first time i played it i get it in just two weeks of game or sort of and are so overpowered that become the rest of the game pretty boring  :( ) a more logic and also challenger tech tree, and also a really interesting mod that let you play as megapol, xcom failed so is time that megapol make a steep foward and stop the invasion, is kind of fun but i dont use it right now (im playing with the rebalace mod and i have to say that they make the game more interesting)

so here is:
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 09:55:15 pm by blackwolf »