Author Topic: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units  (Read 1378 times)

Offline MontyDrake

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
[Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« on: November 05, 2020, 01:32:58 am »
I've been looking at the ruleset Reference, but I think there is no way to make it now.

Would it be easy to implement a ruleset option to make a unit not recognizable when spotted? I've been tinkering with an alien unit idea that mimics as other living things. I initially thought about CamouflageatDay/Dark, but I need the unit to be seen when disguised, just unidentifiable as hostile, in order to cause concern in the player when a suspicious civilian walks towards his soldiers.

What do you think?

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 6915
  • OXCE developer
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2020, 01:58:09 am »
I don't understand.
What does "unrecognizable" mean?
What effects/features would it have?
And how/when would it change from "unrecognized" to "recognized"?

thePaleone

  • Guest
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2020, 02:47:20 am »
I believe the best example of reference is the clone shield from Syndicate or Syndicate Wars. Where a unit when is equiped with the device, it disguises the unit from being identify by opposing factions as a hostile, more like a neutral or friendly unit to the opposing faction.

If the unit is under disguise, it can move around the battlescape map undetected, good for infiltration and assassination missions until the unit breaks cover or get sniffed out by counter detection units.

More like spies wearing cloaking or chameleon devices penetrating a enemy compound. The minute he picks up/uses/drop an item he is decloaks until X turns before his cloaking or chameleon system goes back on again.

If opposing faction has sniffer or detection units like Piratez having dogs.. once a dog get close to your spy by X squares..unit using disguise system get compromised.

A really must have feature for stealth missions. This add a level of coolness, tension and gameplay.   

Offline Ethereal

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2020, 07:57:14 am »
Probably it means the ability of the armor to take on the appearance of the nearest enemy (exit, if unit is 2\2), and disables the red danger icons. Recognized only by psiVision and MindProbe, or the player's attentiveness and observation. That kind of ability would do well for Calcinits.

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 6915
  • OXCE developer
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2020, 11:21:04 am »
If it means that the unit should be recognized as a friend and not as an enemy... then it is a very big change.


EDIT: and basically falls under: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,6498.0.html

Examples:
- there are only 3 factions in a battle and adding even 1 more (or even only changing the behavior of the existing 3) means changing everything
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 11:23:46 am by Meridian »

Offline Ethereal

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2020, 01:49:08 pm »
If it means that the unit should be recognized as a friend and not as an enemy... then it is a very big change.

No, the unit does not change faction, but the red square indicating the target's hostility is blocked. Only works against the player.

Offline Stoddard

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
  • in a fey mood
    • View Profile
    • Linux builds & stuff
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2020, 02:02:31 pm »
No, the unit does not change faction, but the red square indicating the target's hostility is blocked. Only works against the player.

This is one and the same from the code point of view.
 Enemies that are not quite enemies unless conditions are in fact a new faction.


Offline Ethereal

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2020, 02:13:34 pm »
This is one and the same from the code point of view.
 Enemies that are not quite enemies unless conditions are in fact a new faction.

In fact, everything is simpler:

Code: [Select]
armors:
    armorCopyNearbyEnemySprite: false/true
    blockIndicatorEnemyTarget: false/true

In total, you need to block the indicator and an inattentive player will suffer.


Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 6915
  • OXCE developer
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2020, 03:14:47 pm »
In fact, everything is simpler:

I know it is very difficult to understand/believe that something as "small" as this could be so big to implement in the code.

I don't have any good non-technical explanation unfortunately.
You'll just have to believe Stoddard and myself that it is indeed a very big task.

Offline MontyDrake

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2020, 03:59:14 pm »
I don't understand.
What does "unrecognizable" mean?
What effects/features would it have?
And how/when would it change from "unrecognized" to "recognized"?

The nearest example I can think of is the Faceless alien unit from XCOM2. It starts a terror mision and it looks like a civilian, it acts like a civilian, it's seen by the player and xcom units, but it is not recognized as a hostile alien unit, and definitely it is not a civilian unit.

My idea was to have terrorist unit with an armor in the appereance of a civilian that didn't trigger the red icon when spotted, making use of its looks in order to get near xcom soldiers and kill them with a melee attack or a close range weapon. This way, the player must find visual clues to guess if a civilian is in fact an alien in disguise, and decide if shooting a civilian is worth the risk.

I initially planned to make an alien that directly looked like a civilian, but I soon remembered that it wouldn't matter, as soldiers would recognize it as hostile anyway as soon as they spot it. That is what I meant for "unrecognizable", soldiers simply doesn't react to that unit as soon as they spot it, they don't stop their actions, the red icon doesn't pop up. Not unless that unit is, for example, recognized and forced to revert to its natural alien shape (turning into another unit, just as a zombie creates a new chryssalid).
It can be forced to revert to a normal alien unit by being attacked, or standing too close to another xcom unit. Definitely it is not a unit changing factions, nor a unit that is not an enemy under conditions. It is an enemy, it behaves as an enemy. The playes just doesn't have any certain clue, except the suspiction of that weird civilian alarmingly running straight to his soldiers, or killing other civilians.

I know it is very difficult to understand/believe that something as "small" as this could be so big to implement in the code.

I don't have any good non-technical explanation unfortunately.
You'll just have to believe Stoddard and myself that it is indeed a very big task.
I really don't know how complex it is, and as an amateur gamedev myself, I believe you guys when you say it is. But as far as non-technical explanations go I think this is the closest I can get to my initial proposal. Hope it helps, and if it doesn't, I guess i'll just drop the idea into the bin.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 04:05:30 pm by MontyDrake »

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 6915
  • OXCE developer
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2020, 04:09:31 pm »
But as far as non-technical explanations go I think this is the closest I can get to my initial proposal. Hope it helps, and if it doesn't, I guess i'll just drop the idea into the bin.

Sorry, I meant "I don't have a non-technical explanation for why it is difficult to code".

Your feature description is OK.

Offline Ethereal

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2020, 04:15:58 pm »
I don't have any good non-technical explanation unfortunately.
You'll just have to believe Stoddard and myself that it is indeed a very big task.

I just tried to find the simplest solution to implement this option. I really like the idea, but ,of course, you know better.

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 10205
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2020, 04:18:35 pm »
I know it is very difficult to understand/believe that something as "small" as this could be so big to implement in the code.

Honestly no, it's not difficult in the slightest.

Offline tarkalak

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1242
    • View Profile
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2020, 04:48:18 pm »
One thing that you could do with the present tools is to use the way "The Thing" mission works in X-COM files:
You create a civilian, who turns into an enemy monster upon death (like the original zombiw), and give him negative health regeneration (to simulate ticking down).

If you can kill that civilian with some trigger you would have what you want.

Offline ohartenstein23

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1929
  • Flamethrowers fry cyberdisk circuits
    • View Profile
Re: [Suggestion] Unrecognizable units
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2020, 05:05:12 pm »
It even would be possible to script it so that the "civilian" "dies" if it starts its turn within a certain distance of one of your units. But the rest of the request, re-stealthing and de-stealthing again, that isn't possible by scripting + other mod options.