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Author Topic: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution  (Read 1233 times)

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][BETA] TFTD Rework: Evolution
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2020, 08:23:53 pm »
1.8
-----------------------------------------------------

Further alien subs and craft armament parameters adjustments.

All alien subs have same reload time now: 24s. This parameter directly affects sub firepower but is not shown in UFOpaedia which makes relative sub firepowers obscure to user. Now when it is same for all alien submarines their UFOpaedia entries with weapon power and damage capacity completely defines their corresponding aggressiveness and toughness. Now when player sees one alien sub having twice more powerful weapon they can expect twice as more damage to their interceptors.

The above change also uniformly changes all USOs firepower with difficulty level. Which lets player correctly estimate damage to interceptor on different difficulty levels.
* Beginner         100%
* Experienced      109%
* Veteran            120%
* Genius            150%
* Superhuman      200%

Smaller alien sub escape timer is increased a little to make them not necessarily flee from prolonged battle all the time. They still can randomly escape, though.

Fleet Supply Cruiser damage capacity is increased slightly to make it slightly more threatening. Is has the lowest firepower in the size class.

The new Battlestar/Predator alien sub weapon power is lowered to place it somewhere between medium and large USOs. It is now the easiest one to fight in large size class followed by Fleet Supply Cruiser then by Battleship.
Battleship stays as most agressive sub beating Dreadnought by firepower. Yet its damage capacity is lowest among other large subs so it can be taken out by DUPs relatively safe.

Conventional craft armaments firepower is reduced to distinguish them from advanced ones. Advanced armaments firepower slightly adjusted too.
* Now Gauss Cannon firepower = two times the Gas Cannon.
* Sonic Oscillator firepower = three times the Gas Cannon.
* D.U.P. Head firepower = 1.35 times the AJAX.
* P.W.T. Cannon firepower = 2.5 times the AJAX.


With the above changes player need so many Gas Cannon equipped Barracudas to defeat corresponding alien subs on Superhuman *on average*. That can randomly fluctuate depending on how lucky or unlucky player is.

Survey Ship                  1
Escort                        1
Cruiser                        1
Heavy Cruiser               2
Hunter                        3
Battlestar                  4
Fleet Supply Cruiser   4
Battleship                  5 - not possible in single four crafts attack
Dreadnought                  5 - not possible in single four crafts attack



Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][BETA] TFTD Rework: Evolution
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2020, 08:47:08 pm »
Played 1.8 a little and found it quite playable. I have also ironed out all the interception parameters thank you for all support on this forum. Now my damage math computation seems correct. Here is the graph about how much Barracudas needed to sink each USO type and how much loss such attack incurs. Numbers in parentheses after the USO name is how much test Barracudas were thrown in action. Keep in mind that this a dumbest attack possible was considered when all interceptors rush forward shooting and never retreat. So USO just destroy them one by one until still standing finally sink alien sub. So with manual rotation it may be possible to achieve lower casualties.

Also keep in mind that this is for Superhuman difficulty. Lower difficulties are much more forgiving in TFTD than in UFO/EU.

Notable things

Four Barracudas with conventional weapons cannot sink Dreadnought.
Out of all conventional weapons, Battleship can be sunk only with DUPs.

Projectile/beam armaments noticeably grow in efficiency with more advanced versions, as they should.

Same for missiles. PWT being so effective that it doesn't lose a single interceptor against Battleship. It does lose one against Dreadnought but, I bet, with proper rotation that could be avoided too.

AJAX has slightly higher payload but DUP has higher firepower and range resulting in lower casualties. That is why I made it more expensive. AJAX is even worse than Gas Cannon but having longer range it should make rotation easer.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 09:03:33 pm by Alpha Centauri Bear »

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][BETA] TFTD Rework: Evolution
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2020, 09:30:35 pm »
1.9
-----------------------------------------------------

Decreased AJAX reload time thus increasing its firepower a little.



Offline AlsoKnownAs

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2020, 05:35:16 am »
Ahh, I saw this leave In Progress to Released. Congrats dude! Great mod

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2020, 04:24:32 pm »
Thank you, man. Big part of credits go to Orz for TFTD Rework huge number of changes. I am just adding some weapon balance on top of it.
I always felt sorry for craft Gauss Cannon. Now it is an advanced armament and has some quite prolonged life due to Sonic research delay. It probably may even outlive Sonic Oscillator due to latter requiring ammo manufacturing with Zrbite. may turn out to be not economical to make a lot of them.

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2020, 05:34:29 pm »
1.10
-----------------------------------------------------

Particle Disturbance Grenade gets a little heavier but much more powerful with bigger blast radius. Essentially it becomes a land mine. I think it will increase its use at least against Aquatoids/Gillmen because of guaranteed kill.

Decreased AJAX and DUP firepower a tille to make them no better than advanced weaponry.

Further adjusted medium and small USOs to make them more equal in the class. All small and tiny USOs now can be taken out by single Gas Cannon Barracuda. Meduim requires two. Predator requires three being sort of an intermediary step between medium and large. FSC requires four. And neither Battleship nor Dreadnought are vulnerable to four conventional armed Barracudas.

Further reduced Zrbite requirement for P.W.T. Cannon ammo to 2. Otherwise, it becomes too economically unfeasible to use them even against larger USOs.


« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 06:23:17 pm by Alpha Centauri Bear »

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2020, 06:21:39 pm »
Here is the armament effectiveness graph as of 1.10. Rearranged conventional weapons to the left to clearly see advanced weapon progression.

Gas Cannon is a worst one as usual with AJAX close following. DUP is the safest conventional armament but it is also most expensive one. This is a trade off between higher armament usage cost and longer repair intervals between attacks.
Gauss Cannon gets progressively better than any conventional weapon especially against larger enemy. Now four Gauss Cannon Barracudas can sink any USO up to Battleship. Sonic Oscillator is even better. PWT is the safest of them all as always.

Full dual armament load cost:
STR_CRAFT_GAS_CANNON:       $9,920
STR_AJAX_LAUNCHER:            $72,000
STR_DUP_HEAD_LAUNCHER: $216,000
STR_GAUSS_CANNON:            $40,000
STR_SONIC_OSCILLATOR:     $120,000
STR_PWT_CANNON:              $224,000 + ZRBITE: 16 + AQUA_PLASTICS: 24


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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2020, 01:31:06 pm »
Care to integrate this mod?

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2020, 05:16:35 pm »
Care to integrate this mod?

Is it just extra weapons? Then I bet it will be fully compatible. No need to integrate. Just install and enable them both and enjoy. Maintains modularity too. You (or anyone) can just enable/disable either of them.

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2020, 12:21:18 pm »
Lobsterman and Tasoth armors are now equal on all sides. Player tends to face opponents to use stronger frontal armor. Whereas AI units just wander around aimlessly turning all their sides to the player to shoot at. No much use in armor variety for them.
If the enemy has variable armor, it can give a small edge to the players who try to focus fire on the ones facing the right way over the players who are unaware of this feature. It adds value to the M.C. Reader especially against any enemies that are difficult to kill.

- - - -

I like how you compare things together. You have an eye for balance done right. The X-Com community is better off with you around.
 8)

P.S.: Can you share with me your equation for determining the chance for several base defense to shoot down an alien craft? I really struggle with that calculation.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 12:23:31 pm by The Reaver of Darkness »

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2020, 07:24:10 pm »
If the enemy has variable armor, it can give a small edge to the players who try to focus fire on the ones facing the right way over the players who are unaware of this feature. It adds value to the M.C. Reader especially against any enemies that are difficult to kill.

Hmm. You have a point. I'll think about reverting this.

I like how you compare things together. You have an eye for balance done right. The X-Com community is better off with you around.
 8)

Much appreciated. 👍

P.S.: Can you share with me your equation for determining the chance for several base defense to shoot down an alien craft? I really struggle with that calculation.

https://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~mbognar/applets/bin.html
n = number of shots (i.e. number of facilities or number of facilities x2 with bombardment shield)
p = hit chance
x = minimal number of hits to sink enemy sub (i.e. you need this or more hits)
red field is you summary chance to achieve it

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2020, 07:15:32 am »
(re: Deep Ones, Tasoths, Lobstermen)
Just some ideas here.

In my personal mod I made Deep Ones ToughAF but took away their Snap Shot. Flavor text says they have aqua plastics mesh on their skin so I gave them like Armor 15 and 90 Health. Not having a Snap Shot means you can dogpile gunfire on them as rookies and itll work, but it demands that you bring Extra Ammo in the transport. It also seriously reinforces making Double Sure you have good cover at the end of the turn - since you're not getting Deep Ones to expose themselves with snap shots you have less odds to know where they are (to savescum the foreknowledge) - and you will get surprised. And this serves to both slow down combat and get more civilians killed by aliens because you're pinned down. Immediate inspiration to get Gauss or Pulsers. And satisfying to have Sonic because you see them go down in 1-2 shots.

Did something similar to Calcinites too. Armor 30 and 130 Health and 70 TU. When you face Calcinites its a big wakeup call - did you bring Coelacanths like you're supposed to?  Do you have heavy damage weapon capability?  ...idea is basically its a blob in a captive suit so you're shooting jello, but eventually the suit gets shredded. To be nice I lowered their melee damage, but its not too much of a consolation.
I kinda see Calcinites as Xcom's version of Jason Vorhees, tough as hell, comes out of nowhere, and beats the hell out of you.

I gave Lobstermen about 50 Armor and shifted their protection to the armor rather than damage resistances. And kept them about as tough as they're supposed to be by the numbers. Guess

Tasoths get more dangerous for Late Game because weapons went to flatRate TUs so that means they actually get 3 shots with Blasta and 2 shots guaranteed with Cannon.
(24/39 TUs for Blasta and 33/43 TUs for Cannon, pistol went to 16/28 TUs)


Then again I also nerfed Tentaculats by removing zombie ability. But they can still screw you up just as fast, having senior officers die is no joke. Its still like 90 damage and ignores 1/2 armor and causes a bunch of fatal wounds.