Author Topic: Logics, questions, suggestions.  (Read 3202 times)

Offline Alazar

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Logics, questions, suggestions.
« on: April 17, 2020, 11:18:40 am »
So, here is the list of what I think is either does not make sense, breaks lore or just not logical:
1. Aquatoids having purple (psi) shield. TFTD lore says that every marine alien is full of implants that block psi, so why do they have psi shield?

2. This comes out of question 1. I can mindcontrol and panic those critters.

3. Shock weapons under water. I'ma be real with you chief, buy a shocker and stick it in water then pull the trigger. Block shock weapons for under water missions, we have dart guns for that.

4. Why do I need a assasin interrogation to unlock martial arts training when I have ninja scroll and Lo Wo's scroll? I am late game and  locked out of Helix Knights and Psions cause they demand MA training.

5. 90% of Hydrospace marines during alien raid in military base run around with crowbars and axes, unarmored. Really? These guys are affiliated with X-Com, why do they not have aquaplastic armors? Theres also only 1 dude with gas cannon and 1 with sonic pistol.

6. Can we fix non hostile AI? Police/military, all run around like headless chicken, sometimes even two steps away from enemy, instead of shooting they like "I'ma run around  stupid"

7. Is zombie arc broken? I cant seem to progress after cleaning nests and catacombs, and I did live captures and kills of all HVTs there.

8. Not getting Shogg arc opened, whats the criteria? I did open it last playthrough.

9. Not getting bobblehead robots missions too.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2020, 12:52:23 pm »
Hello, and trhanks for taking the interest.

So, here is the list of what I think is either does not make sense, breaks lore or just not logical:
1. Aquatoids having purple (psi) shield. TFTD lore says that every marine alien is full of implants that block psi, so why do they have psi shield?

OK, let's get this out of the way: half of TFTD lore is crap.
I am strugling to keep the mod 100% aligned with UFO/X-Com 1 lore (or at least close enough), even when I build upon it or interpret it in some ways. But for TFTD, I cannot do this, because it's internally inconsistent, illogical, and shoehorned (since the game was rushed as hell and basically a reskin of UFO). The not-psi molecular control idea is one of the most egregious examples - the creators couldn't get around the fact that psi was already well understood from the first alien war, and they still wanted the same mechanics, so they just said "psi no work lol" and introduce the MC, which was a perfect carbon copy of psi.
Now, I'm not saying that the entire MC lore as such is garbage. There is some interesting content regarding to the Synonium network and the like. But I consider it just a form of psi, because this is what "MC" actually must be. There is absolutely no reason to believe that normal psi doesn't work on TFTD aliens when it works to some degree on all living beings, just because they have some gizmo in their brains.
If you aren't convinced, then you can assume it's not a psi shield but an MC shield... Which changes exactly nothing. ;)

2. This comes out of question 1. I can mindcontrol and panic those critters.

See above.

3. Shock weapons under water. I'ma be real with you chief, buy a shocker and stick it in water then pull the trigger. Block shock weapons for under water missions, we have dart guns for that.

I know, but TFTD is big on electric weapons which work underwater perfectly... So there must be some trick to it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don't like it much myself, but I don't want to tackle this right now.

4. Why do I need a assasin interrogation to unlock martial arts training when I have ninja scroll and Lo Wo's scroll? I am late game and  locked out of Helix Knights and Psions cause they demand MA training.

Because unlike Naruto, you still need a teacher, and catching one living Assassin isn't a big deal. If you missed the opportunity with Black Lotus, wait for a bank robbery.

5. 90% of Hydrospace marines during alien raid in military base run around with crowbars and axes, unarmored. Really? These guys are affiliated with X-Com, why do they not have aquaplastic armors? Theres also only 1 dude with gas cannon and 1 with sonic pistol.

It's not an X-Com base, it's a civilian facility. If they could defend themselves, the Council wouldn't even let you know this place exists.

Maybe I'll make some Aqua-Plastic units for them in the future, when I expand the underwater arc.

6. Can we fix non hostile AI? Police/military, all run around like headless chicken, sometimes even two steps away from enemy, instead of shooting they like "I'ma run around  stupid"

That's not a question to me, but to developers :)

7. Is zombie arc broken? I cant seem to progress after cleaning nests and catacombs, and I did live captures and kills of all HVTs there.

It is not broken, as people certainly are getting past this phase. You must be missing something.

8. Not getting Shogg arc opened, whats the criteria? I did open it last playthrough.

You need to discover Hidden Caves, develop a Motion Scanner and find some Shogg artifact.

9. Not getting bobblehead robots missions too.

RNG makes every campaign different. Enjoy what you have, because many people don't see it! :)

Offline Alazar

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2020, 01:28:38 pm »
On question answer 4:
 I get so many UFOs that I dont think that will ever happen again, besides after the interrogation dude gets terminated, so how does a corpse train my agents is beyond my understanding.

On question answer number 5:
I am pretty sure two combat submarines in docks and a large quantity of torpedoes near them counts as military, besides it is stated in briefing (at least in RU), plus how they would down USOs if they would have been civs? They would not have access to military equipment to do that.
Also, your military advisor mentions that he organised this company to hunt USO, this already speaks that they are an early branch of X-Com that later grows to what we operate in TFTD, which makes them SpecOps military. Thats why I wondered why they are so underequiped.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 01:36:24 pm by Alazar »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2020, 01:58:45 pm »
On question answer 4:
 I get so many UFOs that I dont think that will ever happen again, besides after the interrogation dude gets terminated, so how does a corpse train my agents is beyond my understanding.

Who ever said he was terminated? O_o
What a disturbing assumption... :D

On question answer number 5:
I am pretty sure two combat submarines in docks and a large quantity of torpedoes near them counts as military, besides it is stated in briefing (at least in RU), plus how they would down USOs if they would have been civs? They would not have access to military equipment to do that.

Also, your military advisor mentions that he organised this company to hunt USO, this already speaks that they are an early branch of X-Com that later grows to what we operate in TFTD, which makes them SpecOps military. Thats why I wondered why they are so underequiped.

Well, they're not necessarily the same people/base. But I get what you're saying. Might give them some security in the future.


Offline Alazar

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2020, 03:25:59 pm »
Who ever said he was terminated? O_o
What a disturbing assumption... :D

I am pretty sure that  "УНИЧТОЖАЕТСЯ ПРЕДМЕТ: Ассасин 《Черного лотоса》" on tech tree window translates as "OBJECT DESTROYED: 《Black lotus》 Assasin", like 100500% sure. ;D

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2020, 03:34:52 pm »
Tech tree viewer doesn't count as lore. That just means you no longer have the assassin after the interrogation is over. Ergo, you're just assuming that means termination of captives.

Seriously, it says the same thing about farmers you capture - do you really think X-Com offs them too?

Offline vadracas

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2020, 03:49:29 pm »
Tech tree viewer doesn't count as lore. That just means you no longer have the assassin after the interrogation is over. Ergo, you're just assuming that means termination of captives.

Seriously, it says the same thing about farmers you capture - do you really think X-Com offs them too?

Here's my take on the lore-
Farmers go to a psychiatric ward
cultists go to prisons
valuable people like the assassin who we still need get threatened into helping us
Aliens actually get terminated or handed over to the council.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2020, 04:07:38 pm »
Here's my take on the lore-
Farmers go to a psychiatric ward
cultists go to prisons
valuable people like the assassin who we still need get threatened into helping us
Aliens actually get terminated or handed over to the council.

That's pretty much what I would assume, yes. But it's deliberately left unsaid, let the player decides.

Offline Yankes

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2020, 08:03:12 pm »
Now, I'm not saying that the entire MC lore as such is garbage. There is some interesting content regarding to the Synonium network and the like. But I consider it just a form of psi, because this is what "MC" actually must be. There is absolutely no reason to believe that normal psi doesn't work on TFTD aliens when it works to some degree on all living beings, just because they have some gizmo in their brains.
If you aren't convinced, then you can assume it's not a psi shield but an MC shield... Which changes exactly nothing.

I think using current scripts you could add some flavor to to PSI and MC, simply some aliens have build in PSI dampeners that make normal attacks less effective.
Overall this could be used too for adding remote hacking tool that allow attack all mechanical targets and useless for biological ones.

Probably at some point I will allow querying in scripts for all finished research projects, this could have very fun consequence that you need research first some enemy to be able "hack"/"psi" him.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2020, 12:57:43 pm »
I think using current scripts you could add some flavor to to PSI and MC, simply some aliens have build in PSI dampeners that make normal attacks less effective.

Yes, but it's not that simple: such creatures would be more resistant to standard psi, but way less resistant to the compatible psi (MC).
I guess it's possible with scripts, though. Would have to investigate.

Overall this could be used too for adding remote hacking tool that allow attack all mechanical targets and useless for biological ones.

Yes, I've had such ideas too. But at this point I'm not sure which direction to go.

Offline Alazar

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2020, 12:43:46 pm »
Been listening to lots of original soundtracks for X-Com. Got a suggestion, why dont you replace all original, dry sounding music on geoscape and intercept screens with revamps and remixes, its basically the same music, but it sounds sooo much better.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2020, 12:44:55 pm »
Been listening to lots of original soundtracks for X-Com. Got a suggestion, why dont you replace all original, dry sounding music on geoscape and intercept screens with revamps and remixes, its basically the same music, but it sounds sooo much better.

I prefer to add than to replace, if possible. I like the older versions too.

Offline Alazar

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2020, 01:25:19 pm »
I prefer to add than to replace, if possible. I like the older versions too.
Yeah, I can understand that, but you are not doing this mod for yourself only, right? Besides I clearly remember you saying that you dont play XCF a lot.  ::)
Besides you have quality tracks mixed with like release date MIDI ones in one game, I feel(might be even hearing) my brain click everytime music changes from something like Ambassy surface assault to alien base assault music or new geoscape to old MIDI intercept when you hunt a UFO.  :D Not the best sensation.
But whatever you say, bossman.

Offline vadracas

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2020, 01:29:55 pm »
Yeah, I can understand that, but you are not doing this mod for yourself only, right? Besides I clearly remember you saying that you dont play XCF a lot.  ::)
Besides you have quality tracks mixed with like release date MIDI ones in one game, I feel(might be even hearing) my brain click everytime music changes from something like Ambassy surface assault to alien base assault music or new geoscape to old MIDI intercept when you hunt a UFO.  :D Not the best sensation.
But whatever you say, bossman.

Then hit the end key and choose the music you want. You say the mod isn't just for Solarius, that's accurate, but it's also not just for you.

Offline Alazar

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Re: Logics, questions, suggestions.
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2020, 01:33:42 pm »
Then hit the end key and choose the music you want. You say the mod isn't just for Solarius, that's accurate, but it's also not just for you.
Never had that in mind, sorry for missunderstanding.
Also I have only 1 soundtrack of choice after I hit END and it switches to default UFO tac mission soundtack.

EDIT: I dare you to find END key here, and tell me how it works, because it does not anymore in OXCE on this bloody laptop.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 01:45:21 pm by Alazar »