Author Topic: Map building tools/editors?  (Read 470 times)

misterx

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Map building tools/editors?
« on: January 22, 2020, 03:44:30 pm »
So as title says, what are the programs to build and modify maps for opexcom? luke83 user hosts on his site "DaiShivas Mapview" and kevL has made a mapview 2 version, but are there are other alternatives?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 04:32:45 pm by misterx »

Offline Meridian

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2020, 04:05:43 pm »
how many programs do you want?

one is enough, two is already too much

misterx

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2020, 04:08:01 pm »
how many programs do you want?

one is enough, two is already too much

just for enqury, as Freddie said "the bigger the better". Which one do you guys recommend to use?

Offline efrenespartano

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2020, 04:16:05 pm »
just for enqury, as Freddie said "the bigger the better". Which one do you guys recommend to use?
Some map making veterans as Luke83 prefer MapView2.

While other veterans as Solarius Scorch and Hobbes prefer the old MapView1.

IMHO, MV2 is easier and better to understand, also is in active development by KevL. I tried to use MV1 some time ago and I still prefer the newer version.



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Offline kevL

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2020, 08:55:24 pm »
Mv1 and Mv2 should not be seen as in competition. This is not simply an opinion.*

Mv2 IS Mv1. Daishiva gave his blessing (we discussed things a bit) and he Liked the repo. To me, it's as if he was glad someone came along to look after his child and help it grow up, when life took him in a different direction.

I took the most advanced codebase of Mv1 i could find, and appended the "2" only when the format of the metadata changed to YAML (making said metadata no longer compatible w/ older versions).

The only reason that some persons still use Mv1, as far as I can see, is because they have HUGE (thousands) of mapblocks and are therefore understandably reluctant to upgrade to the new metadata format. There are, however, 2 standalone apps packaged w/ Mv2 [RulesetConverter and ConfigConverter] that can do such a conversion - not sure how well they work though. RulesetConverter is recommended since it uses the YAML input of an OxC ruleset, which is more likely to provide correct input than the paths files of Mv1. A user might have to make a few trial & error runthroughs to get things right, though.

And, whether it's noticeable at a glance or not, Mv2 is a massively advanced/enhanced version of Mv.


* or if it is it's a fairly sophisticated one

anyway, carry on. I get food on my plate no matter which one is used ...

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2020, 03:31:01 pm »
I did try to convert my MV1 stuff to MV2, but it failed. It worked for Finnik, but the two of us couldn't find what could be wrong on my end. Ultimately I gave up.
I would appreciate having a detailed tutorial, maybe I would be able to find the issue then. I would like to update, I really dig the new features.

misterx

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2020, 03:44:11 pm »
What are the differences between those programs, i mean, explained to those that are laymen?

Offline kevL

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2020, 11:46:15 pm »
I did try to convert my MV1 stuff to MV2, but it failed. It worked for Finnik, but the two of us couldn't find what could be wrong on my end. Ultimately I gave up.
I would appreciate having a detailed tutorial, maybe I would be able to find the issue then. I would like to update, I really dig the new features.

... let's try to get it working, Solarius

can you point me to an OxC ruleset that has your terrains defined? I'd like to try running it through the RulesetConverter ...

it doesn't have to be all your terrains, but a ruleset with a substantial subset could be a good start,

Offline kevL

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2020, 11:52:39 pm »
What are the differences between those programs, i mean, explained to those that are laymen?

just fixes/enhancements

like when zoomed in on a Map, and the scrollbars are visible, you can hold down the rightmousebutton and pan the map around
route files can be exported and used as templates
to select a tile in TopView, the tile-lozenge has to be clicked on (in Mv1 clicking on the background outside the map-lozenge selects the tile closest to the click-point)
various test functions, warn about out of bounds routenodes, warn if MCD record count has been exceeded ...

too many to document. Like i said Mv2 IS Mv1 (an upgraded version and it uses a different file format to store tileset data)

Offline hellrazor

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2020, 05:00:34 am »
... let's try to get it working, Solarius

can you point me to an OxC ruleset that has your terrains defined? I'd like to try running it through the RulesetConverter ...

it doesn't have to be all your terrains, but a ruleset with a substantial subset could be a good start,

You could just use the one from SupSupers OpenXcom Github: https://github.com/OpenXcom/OpenXcom/blob/master/bin/standard/xcom1/terrains.rul

If the ruleset converter works correctly that would be really nice.

Offline kevL

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2020, 05:18:06 am »
You could just use the one from SupSupers OpenXcom Github: https://github.com/OpenXcom/OpenXcom/blob/master/bin/standard/xcom1/terrains.rul

If the ruleset converter works correctly that would be really nice.

The converters work for me (and i've tested them against other OxC rulesets and Mv1 configs). But how things should turn out depends on how your Mv2 Configurator (on install and under the Edit menu) is set

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2020, 06:04:31 pm »
... let's try to get it working, Solarius

can you point me to an OxC ruleset that has your terrains defined? I'd like to try running it through the RulesetConverter ...

it doesn't have to be all your terrains, but a ruleset with a substantial subset could be a good start,

Thanks man, I really appreciate it.

I have no idea what you mean by a ruleset (MapView doesn't use .rul files... At least not the old one), but I'll attach my MapEdit.dat.

I can also link you the whole terrain folder if you like, just let me know.

Offline kevL

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2020, 09:41:04 pm »
nono. Mv2 has two "converter" apps: (1) RulesetConverter.exe (2) ConfigConverter/ConfigConverter.exe

(1) if you double-click RulesetConverter.exe (see screenshot #1) you can browse to an OxC .rul file and convert its "terrains:" definitions (if it has any) to a MapTilesets.yml for Mv2. By default it assumes that the basepath of your "terrains" (that is, the parent directory of the MAPS, ROUTES, AND TERRAIN directories) is going to be the same as the basepath set by the Configurator of Mv2. So tick the "add Basepath" box (and browse to the basepath of your MAPS, ROUTES, AND TERRAIN directories) only if you intend to set Mv2's Configurator basepath to some other directory.

For example, since Mv2 requires the CURSOR.PCK+TAB in xcom's UFOGRAPH directory (and benefits from SCANG.DAT and LOFTEMPS.DAT in GEODATA) set the Configurator's basepath to the parent of those directories (in Mv2 itself). But if the MAPS, ROUTES, AND TERRAIN directories that you want to work with are under some other directory, then the "add Basepath" browser should point to the latter.

( Note that multiple MapTilesets.yml can be merged together in a text editor. )

(2) ConfigConverter.exe on the other hand (see screenshot #2) parses the Mv1 config files (MapEdit.dat, Images.dat, Paths.pth) and tries to output a MapTilesets.yml based on those.

MapEdit.dat by itself isn't enough ...

basically, i need the fullpath of your UFOGRAPH folder, and the .rul file(s) from say FMP that has its "terrains" definitions -- as input for the RulesetConverter. Or MapEdit.dat, Images.dat, Paths.pth -- as input for the ConfigConverter.

or try it yerself,
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 12:34:50 am by kevL »

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2020, 11:09:40 am »
OK, thanks KevL. So if understand corerctly, the RulesetConverter method assumes that:
1) The mod contains all terrains. Which is far from the truth, I am working on several mods, and many terrains are unique to one or some of them.
2) All terrains are in one .rul file. Not true, because not only terrains, UFOs and craft are typically in different rulesets, but also terrains tend to be split into multiple rulesets for sanity.

So, the ConfigConverter looks like the way to go for me, therefore I'm attaching all three files you mentioned.

Many thanks for the help!

Online davide

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Re: Map building tools/editors
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2020, 11:35:58 am »
An other strategy could be to rebuild mapview tileset by import mod rule files ::)
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1321.msg122525.html#msg122525