Author Topic: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.  (Read 530 times)

Offline Precentor Apollyon

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Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« on: September 18, 2019, 03:24:04 pm »
Hi, if you capture the opposing side, maybe be Aliens or humans.

Is it possible to code something like you can subvert or recruit captured aliens to permanent fight for you?

Second question.

Instead of permanent, the capture-and-then-turn-your-side-alien can change side again, if it panicked in battlescape when its morale plummeted?

Just an idea..

Online Meridian

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2019, 03:27:29 pm »
Is it possible to code something like you can subvert or recruit captured aliens to permanent fight for you?

Yes.

Instead of permanent, the capture-and-then-turn-your-side-alien can change side again, if it panicked in battlescape when its morale plummeted?

No.

Offline Precentor Apollyon

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2019, 03:29:47 pm »
Instead of permanent, the capture-and-then-turn-your-side-alien can change side again, if it panicked in battlescape when its morale plummeted?

Hmm.. if the soldier on your side panicked, they turn berserk and attack randomly.

Or if the Aliens mind control your own soldiers. Your soldier will attack your own side.

So it is not possible to tapped into the engine mechanic to mimic the feature above?

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2019, 03:33:12 pm »
Panicking, berserking and mind-controlling don't change the permanent side of a unit.

Offline Precentor Apollyon

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2019, 03:37:49 pm »
Maybe temporary then in the battlescape, but when the mission finishes, and the unit is not back on your side.. and all your other soldiers is dead. It is for your imagination to decide if the alien or recruited soldier is lost permanently.

So to rephrase the question. If the enemy unit your capture and recruited, panicked in the battlescape, can it be "mind controlled" to fight on the enemy side permanently for the duration of the battle?

Why I ask of this is, if you recruit a turncoat, their loyalty is always questionable. If this feature is available one day, it make the whole capture the alien, convert it and never to trust it.. more interesting. Capture aliens are more prone or twice as vulnerable at panicking from low morale than normal units.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 03:54:30 pm by wcho035 »

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2019, 03:53:14 pm »
So to rephrase the question. If the enemy unit your capture and recruited, panicked in the battlescape, can it be "mind controlled" to fight on the enemy side permanently for the duration of the battle?

Not by ruleset.
Maybe by some creative scripting...

Offline Precentor Apollyon

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2019, 03:56:02 pm »
Okay. thanks for answering. Again, I propose this feature. I lay this on the table..so if the others find my idea interesting.. they could push more for it. Maybe you can give it a go.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2019, 04:25:03 pm »
I'm failing to see how this could be useful or make for an interesting gameplay element that doesn't potentially break balancing. "Turning" enemy units is already possible (via recovering/manufacturing/recruiting). "re"-turning 'enemy' (friendly?) units is partly covered by mind control.

Offline Precentor Apollyon

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2019, 04:54:07 pm »
Capturing and recruit aliens is not the same as recovering dead aliens and reanimating it. You are recruiting an alien you capture. Using the stats it originally has, at the time of capture. Not using the stats from a pre-made reanimated one.

The fun is, you try to capture the aliens in mission you want in your team. Research it and then, put it in your team. Mind controlling enemy alien only exist in the current mission you play, it does not carry over to the next mission, nor does it's stats grow from doing more missions. Also capturing aliens is a lot harder than killing one and then uses its dead body to reanimate it. Think of a prize you capture and using on your side. It is about the salvage.. you find the satisfaction in capturing and reusing the prize you capture against the enemy.

Also...where is the fun in capturing aliens, after all the research is done with them? I am trying to make the research mechanic more useful in the game, after the alien type is researched.

Plus if you want to go the manufacture/recovering and recruiting way. You have to create EVERY type of alien you want to reanimate or recruit in your ruleset coding. Turning captured aliens.. you use the current alien and its current stats you capture. I don't know how Merdian would code this. I don't believe you need to build a template for all and every alien you captured and wanting to recruit to be on your side.

As for breaking balancing, I did mention the alien is twice as easy to panic in a battlefield mission. So, you have to make sure its morale is always on top. If it panicked, you lose it for the rest of the mission.

Offline Precentor Apollyon

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2019, 05:02:07 pm »
Also the "research" in converting the Alien to your side should hava a chance of failure. It would make the outcome more anticipating..

Offline krautbernd

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2019, 06:19:40 pm »
Capturing and recruit aliens is not the same as recovering dead aliens and reanimating it. You are recruiting an alien you capture. Using the stats it originally has, at the time of capture. Not using the stats from a pre-made reanimated one.
You can use live aliens, i.e. the ones you actually captured.

The fun is, you try to capture the aliens in mission you want in your team. Research it and then, put it in your team.
Research topics are one-off, you can't have recurring research topics. All of this could be implemented - without any additional work - when you use manufacturing projects for this.

Also...where is the fun in capturing aliens, after all the research is done with them? I am trying to make the research mechanic more useful in the game, after the alien type is researched.
The research mechanic is already useful for doing research. You're trying to build a strawman argument around that. This isn't about research, it's about you wanting to have alien soldiers.

Plus if you want to go the manufacture/recovering and recruiting way. You have to create EVERY type of alien you want to reanimate or recruit in your ruleset coding. Turning captured aliens.. you use the current alien and its current stats you capture.
Which means it's actually doable using the current mechanics. No additional coding needed, beside the work you yourself would have to put into this.

As for breaking balancing, I did mention the alien is twice as easy to panic in a battlefield mission. So, you have to make sure its morale is always on top. If it panicked, you lose it for the rest of the mission.
You'd still be able to 'recruit' top notch 'soldiers' with potentially much higher reactions/tu/strength than you'd be able to recruit normally and which would take ages to train.

Also the "research" in converting the Alien to your side should hava a chance of failure. It would make the outcome more anticipating..
Random manufacturing results are already possible. Again, you can already implement the majority of what you're requesting. But apparently that would be too much of a hassle?

Offline Precentor Apollyon

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2019, 06:37:57 pm »
You can use live aliens, i.e. the ones you actually captured.

Alright you have me there. Maybe you can give me a hint of how this is coded in the ruleset? If you can tell me the way, I take back all I said.


Offline krautbernd

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2019, 06:45:38 pm »
You can use live aliens, i.e. the ones you actually captured.

Alright you have me there. Maybe you can give me a hint of how this is coded in the ruleset? If you can tell me the way, I take back all I said.
->ruleset nightly 'spawnedPersonType' under manufacturing. Use live alien of your choice as input and "converted alien of your choice" soldier type as your output.

Offline Precentor Apollyon

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2019, 06:58:36 pm »
I am aware of such a feature in manufacturing.  As far as I understand the usage of this feature, you need to use the soldier generation code from soldier.rul to generate the soldier you want in your team.

It is like hiring. However, this is not converting a capture alien to your own side.

You have to create a soldier generation code in soldier.rul for EACH alien type you need to capture.

Also the stats are not the same from what you originally capture. If I am wrong, then you correct me.
 

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Re: Capturable Aliens.. converted to your side.
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2019, 07:21:53 pm »
It is like hiring. However, this is not converting a capture alien to your own side.
You have to create a soldier generation code in soldier.rul for EACH alien type you need to capture.
Also the stats are not the same from what you originally capture. If I am wrong, then you correct me.

Nobody said it's easy.
Yes, you need to define a lot of soldiers and you need to define same stats for them.