Author Topic: New features request for OXCE  (Read 378 times)

Online Meridian

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New features request for OXCE
« on: August 26, 2019, 01:40:39 pm »
requested by wcho035
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Hi Meridian

I want to thank you for the wonderful features you have included in OCXE. This game engine really made me play UFO the way I really dream it should have been played!

I have a few new features in mind that could help enrich the game.

1). UFO intercept XCom craft and they shoot it down. You have to play defensive against the enemy while you are the crash site.

2). Allow enemy terror weapons to have turrets. So Enemy can use turret tank you purchase back at you.

3) Allow Genetic engineering of soldiers.

Allow a new base building that you can genetically enhance your soldiers.

Like training room, you have option like Genetic lab= yes and how many soldier you wish to manufacture in the manufacturing section of the base

This is a lot different than cloning. You have to extract genetic samples from two of your best soldiers and create a merge template with stats having a +- 5% difference from the average start stats between the two soldier.

You can keep breeding / manufacturing these soldiers and with each successive generation having better stats.

The cost to this is each soldier that is breed this way have a limit life span, determine by the modder.

This is the instability from the genetic engineering process. For each successive generation, the lifespan of the soldier have a degradation option, like -1 day from the original copy total lifespan. Unless you use fresh stocks to reset the lifespan.  If you breed a soldier from two engineered template, his lifespan is the average of the two template.

If a genetic enhance soldier dies of natural causes, all his equipment will be reverted to the base inventory.

I hope you can implement these features to make the game more fun to play.

Thanks
William

Offline krautbernd

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2019, 02:46:32 pm »
1) I could actually see the craft defense missions being interesting - if it's your troop transport that got shot down. But how would this be handled though? Would you (or rather can the engine right now) force-deploy crafts to mission sites? Or would the craft spawn a mission site that other crafts can be deployed to? How are soldiers&equipment handled in that case? Can you recover the craft if the defense is successful?

If they don't spawn mission sites, would these add anything to gameplay for interceptors that normally carry one or two soldiers (or none, in vanilla) that get shot down?

2) Can't they already? I might be misremembering this. I don't understand the second part of the request.

3) This sounds extremely complicated, given that you would have to be able manufacture/extract 'genetic samples' from every soldier. Can't this already be handled by transformations in a satisfactory manner, seeing how you can also produce soldiers/units (e.g. produce clone body, transform clone with desired stats)? I'm also not in favor of the 'limited lifespan' feature, given not only the randomized timespans between missions in general, but also because it's another attribute that has to be tracked.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 02:58:38 pm by krautbernd »

Online wcho035

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2019, 06:08:42 pm »
Before I reply to the other questions, Firstly, how do you implement the turret on an enemy terror unit like a tank?

What I meant was, if I can purchase Tank/Cannon from the market, then the enemy could also do the same and use it against me.

So, I like to have tank/Cannon terror weapons.

However, no matter how I tried and experiment, I can't find a way to make it happen without the turret going missing.

Any idea how this can be done?

Online wcho035

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2019, 09:25:13 am »
Also for the 1x1 Hanger thing.  I understand there is an alignment problem with the craft sprite vs the base room outline. I believe this can be trimmed, with an art asset editor to fit into the base room outline, provide the craft is small. A larger craft would need the normal 2x2 hanger.

So the bottom line is, can we add a check on the craft ruleset is craft small or large, for the relevant size hanger it could use? Small can use both small and large hanger, but large only for large?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 08:33:59 pm by wcho035 »

Online wcho035

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2019, 05:40:46 pm »
1) I could actually see the craft defense missions being interesting - if it's your troop transport that got shot down. But how would this be handled though? Would you (or rather can the engine right now) force-deploy crafts to mission sites? Or would the craft spawn a mission site that other crafts can be deployed to? How are soldiers&equipment handled in that case? Can you recover the craft if the defense is successful?

To answer this question, its probably the engine. Like you are shot down and then a crash site shows up. Your crash site. It would be great if it can color red or something.  While awaiting rescue, the alien can land (A mission spawn) and be treated as a terror mission. The mission parameter is a random x number of Soldier in your craft die from the crash. You have to defend and eliminate the alien attackers. After you win, the crash site remains until the crew can be rescue. However, anytime between the crash site was rescued, the crash site can be subject to a number of alien raids.. with each successive mission would only retain the survivors and supplies survived from the previous mission success.

How the rescue is done, is treated in the manner a troop transport landing into a crash site, but instead of doing a mission, it would say crew rescue.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 06:05:04 pm by wcho035 »

Online wcho035

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2019, 05:52:49 pm »
3) This sounds extremely complicated, given that you would have to be able manufacture/extract 'genetic samples' from every soldier. Can't this already be handled by transformations in a satisfactory manner, seeing how you can also produce soldiers/units (e.g. produce clone body, transform clone with desired stats)? I'm also not in favor of the 'limited lifespan' feature, given not only the randomized timespans between missions in general, but also because it's another attribute that has to be tracked.

A) Well the best answer for this is using the Battletech clan truebirth warriors as an analogy. Cloning is fine, but you are making a copy from a soldier. Genetic engineering is to using these templates to create a "superior" version of the soldier. Transform clone with desire strait.. well technically is cheating. You want to make the game interesting and challenging. Breeding using template introduce chances. Chances some are superior through the random +- 5% stats improve from the donor. This stats climbs with each successive generation but at the cost of genetic degradation with the limited lifespan. Of course, you can change the lifespan and even turn it off. However, this would build the character of XCOM further as a game. Like, which best performing soldier would you select as the best template for the future generation.  Yet this best performance has a cost, but this degradation can be off set with research, like Stabilizing the Template through research on Alien Cloning.  Instead of total cure, it extend the life of the clone by 50% or etc. I am hoping this feature would be a great counter to the Lobsterman or the muton.

So, for clones whom are approaching the end of their life span, how would they be better utilized? I would used them as cannon folders with explosive as their main weapons. Kamikaze into ufo and die in a blaze of glory.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2019, 08:26:33 pm »
To answer this question, its probably the engine. Like you are shot down and then a crash site shows up. Your crash site. It would be great if it can color red or something.  While awaiting rescue, the alien can land (A mission spawn) and be treated as a terror mission. The mission parameter is a random x number of Soldier in your craft die from the crash. You have to defend and eliminate the alien attackers. After you win, the crash site remains until the crew can be rescue. However, anytime between the crash site was rescued, the crash site can be subject to a number of alien raids.. with each successive mission would only retain the survivors and supplies survived from the previous mission success.
I think you misunderstood what I wrote. When I talked about the engine, I meant the game engine, and by force-deploying I meant that the craft (which was shot down) would be 'forced' to deploy to the newly spawned crash site. Essentially the game would spawn a mission site after your craft gets shot down and instead of your craft being deleted it would be 'forced' to deploy to that mission. Ergo your craft, items and crew would only be lost if you lose that ground assault.

This would strike me as the easiest solution, but then again I have no idea what it would take to implement this.

The scenario you're describing sounds more like my second scenario, and strikes me as more complex and I'm honestly not sure what it is you're requesting. Does the crash site itself spawn a terror mission, or only after aliens assault that crash site? Can the site despawn? What happens if it does? If you deploy a craft to the initial site, you get to recover a random number of soldiers and equipment? If you deploy a craft to the terror site, which soldiers&items are supposed to spawn on that mission? For this to work you would have to keep track of the soldiers&equipment that were in the craft that got shot down, find  way for aliens to assault crash sites and modify mission sites between assaults (would that even work?).

I'm not sure that this is feasible, and don't quite see the point of implementing something this complex for what is essentially a simple crash site.

A) Well the best answer for this is using the Battletech clan truebirth warriors as an analogy. Cloning is fine, but you are making a copy from a soldier. Genetic engineering is to using these templates to create a "superior" version of the soldier. Transform clone with desire strait.. well technically is cheating. You want to make the game interesting and challenging. Breeding using template introduce chances. Chances some are superior through the random +- 5% stats improve from the donor. This stats climbs with each successive generation but at the cost of genetic degradation with the limited lifespan. Of course, you can change the lifespan and even turn it off. However, this would build the character of XCOM further as a game. Like, which best performing soldier would you select as the best template for the future generation.  Yet this best performance has a cost, but this degradation can be off set with research, like Stabilizing the Template through research on Alien Cloning.  Instead of total cure, it extend the life of the clone by 50% or etc. I am hoping this feature would be a great counter to the Lobsterman or the muton.

So, for clones whom are approaching the end of their life span, how would they be better utilized? I would used them as cannon folders with explosive as their main weapons. Kamikaze into ufo and die in a blaze of glory.

I'm not familiar with battletech tbh. I was asking whether or not you could get pretty much (or a close enough) result with existing mechanics. While what you're proposing is interesting from a certain point of view, but I see this an extremely niche mechanic. I also don't see how any of these would be more of a counter to aliens than existing soldiers who have been trained to their max stats. The whole limited lifespan strikes me as kind of pointless when you can get pretty much the same results by simply training your soldiers.

Do you have any concrete use for this mechanic / do you need it for a mod project?

My only take away from this would be an option to randomize max stats / training caps of soldiers - right now they are pretty much the same once they reach their caps. Meridian, would something like that be possible? IIRC the game actually keeps track of a soldier initial stats, doesn't it?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 08:32:43 pm by krautbernd »

Offline robin

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2019, 11:36:04 pm »
Before I reply to the other questions, Firstly, how do you implement the turret on an enemy terror unit like a tank?

What I meant was, if I can purchase Tank/Cannon from the market, then the enemy could also do the same and use it against me.

So, I like to have tank/Cannon terror weapons.

However, no matter how I tried and experiment, I can't find a way to make it happen without the turret going missing.
I had fully working 'conventional' enemy tanks in my mod (since then I switched to an unconventional solution, because reasons).
Unless some OXCE update forbidden the possibility, they should still be doable.
I suggest you download some big mod (Piratez, X-Com Files) that still may still have 'conventional' enemy tanks and check how they do it.

Online wcho035

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2019, 08:35:24 pm »
I got the tanks working now thanks to Meridian, best help from him ever. Well, I have updated by request for a code check for small planes for smaller hanger 1x1, please check photos by what I meant.

Online wcho035

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2019, 05:54:44 am »
Here is another idea, changing armour of your soldier while in battle, like there’s an inventory slot you can take off and put on different armour.

Online wcho035

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2019, 06:33:03 am »
Another request if possible, could one enable Tanks or HWPs to have its ammunition reloaded during battle? Just like one reloads a rifle?

And having soldiers to pilot it, a soldier can goes in and out. If no one inside the tank, it is motionless and not working.  If the tank dies, there's a 50% chance the soldier might die along in it?

Online wcho035

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2019, 01:15:26 pm »
I'm not familiar with battletech tbh. I was asking whether or not you could get pretty much (or a close enough) result with existing mechanics. While what you're proposing is interesting from a certain point of view, but I see this an extremely niche mechanic. I also don't see how any of these would be more of a counter to aliens than existing soldiers who have been trained to their max stats. The whole limited lifespan strikes me as kind of pointless when you can get pretty much the same results by simply training your soldiers.

Do you have any concrete use for this mechanic / do you need it for a mod project?

My only take away from this would be an option to randomize max stats / training caps of soldiers - right now they are pretty much the same once they reach their caps. Meridian, would something like that be possible? IIRC the game actually keeps track of a soldier initial stats, doesn't it?
To reply this. Niche mechanics, no, I disagree, it is to do with play style.

After studying the code, cloning is fine but you are only cloning the base soldier.  If you want to also include improvement, it is basically well, you are making the game easy.. by just adding the code to build the super soldier. There is no challenge to it.
Okay, so +10% base stats to a soldier... to whole new soldier with new stats. It is you are printing soldier to fight those battles.

What I am proposing is, you work hard to build the type of soldier you want. It make the game more enjoyable by slowly breeding the soldier you want. Base on which stats you like better of the soldier. You can concentrate on building a brute with the best strength stats or to a light weight fast response by his reaction, or to a psychic warrior by concentrating on his psychic  stats.

I suggest including the a limited life span concept for two reasons.

For what you gain, you pay a price for this. It make the game challenging and interesting. There's a cost to something, also it make sense. If you build a copy from a master template, there will be flaws in the copying.. and this get worst as more copies of the copies make.

The other reason is, natural selection, like you want the best soldier, you need to select the best from each generation. If each generation has immortality, how do you get rid of the imperfects? Aging is one way to get rid of it.

I have thought of how this idea of mine could be implemented. In the Soldier Transformation, if Meridian could include these new
features.

Allowtemplateselect=y/n (You can select another template beside the original, for the breeding)

Maxnumtemplateselect=num (You can select more than one soldier to how many you decide, then average the stats all your other selected soldiers for the next gen breed soldier.)

Allowclonedegradation=y/n (Allow limited lifespan)

Daysmaxclonelife=numberofdays (Lifespan in days)

Clonedegradationrate=percentageofaday.  (How fast the clone is decaying. Has to a float variable, for can be 1 day as default)

Positivepercentbasestatschangerandom=Percentage (This determine the maximum random stats gain from base stats. Say you put 10%, however, a random number generator would generate any number between the base stats and the percentage)

Negativepercentbasestatschangetandom=percentage (This determine the negative random stats gain from base stats. Say you put -10%, however, a random number generator would generate any number between the base stats and the negative percentage)

(This allow the +- Stats gain at random from Base stats, to reflect the chance+gamble or uncertainty from breeding next get soldiers. Each Soldier's stats is different from the same generation, you want to select the best. Or, in battle the one with the best performance from the generation)

Clonenumgen=num (Number of clones you want to create in the current generation)

Costofclonegen=num (Cost of creating these clones? )

Clonesharesamegenstats=Y/N (Will the clones share the same generated stats together )

I know it is a lot of coding, I narrow it down what feature is needed. I know it is a wish list but it make the cloning part more interesting than just copy.. or print a better one. You have to work hard to build the next gen clone.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 03:46:05 pm by Meridian »

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2019, 04:28:13 pm »
snip

Meridian isn't the one to ask about changing or adding to this code. I wrote it, so I'll be replying to the request and the points you make here. The gist of my reply will be to ask that you try using what features are already implemented to get as close to what you want with just a mod (no new OXCE engine code), and then come back with a revised suggestion.

First of all, the soldierTransformations feature is built on the idea of "one soldier in, one soldier out" - adding the ability to use a "template" or multiple soldiers as input is a complete redefinition of what the feature is and does. I don't do such sweeping reworks of my features without good reason and knowledge that it will be important in a general use case.

The limited lifespan idea is certainly an interesting way to limit the use of printed supersoldiers, but I think there is a way you can get close to that with the existing scripts in OXCE. For example, instead of decaying after a set or random number of days, you could have the clones' stats or max HP degrade by some amount after each battle you use them, to the point that they'd be worth less than rookies after a few missions or die to a stiff breeze. You could also make them so that they gain experience slower or not at all compared to a regular soldier as another downside to using the clones.

As such I think you should try out using a combination of having multiple soldier types for the clones, playing around with the transformations feature as it is, and using scripts to create appropriate downsides to using the clones before requesting that a developer put a lot of time into this suggestion. I'd rather not write a bunch of new code for a feature that might be suited to what is already available in the game.

Online wcho035

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2019, 05:24:41 pm »
Hi ohartenstein23, thank you very much for your reply.

I have a question, would those new code line above break the game engine?

If they don't, how about if you can send me your code for Soldier Transformation, I will see if I can add those extra code myself. Perhaps with consultation with you, I write it one day, send it back to you and you can upload it into the OXCE.

Sound fair? I ask for it, I write it.

Regards

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: New features request for OXCE
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2019, 07:54:07 pm »
I was not answering whether or not new code would break the game, as it would be written so that it doesn't. More I was getting at whether it should be added on top of the soldierTransformations feature - which I think you're suggesting something enough different that it shouldn't.

Again I'm going to recommend you try what modding features are available and see if it's something both you and other people in the community enjoy. If it's just something you think would be cool and want for your personal campaigns, then writing a personal mod or even custom version of OXCE is certainly reasonable. If there are more people interested including it in their mods, that makes it more likely the feature gets included in OXCE.

The source code for OXCE is freely available on Meridian's GitHub Page. If you do feel like writing your own code for this, be aware that Meridian reserves the right to not include it in OXCE and that likely both he and I will be reviewing code that makes changes to soldierTransformations. The main things I'd be looking for would be that your changes don't break the existing mods that use soldierTransformations and that any new graphical interface elements are clear and easy to use. Given that you want something other than "transform one soldier into a single changed/new soldier", I'd suggest you try writing your feature as something completely new instead of tacking it onto the transformations.